Olemiss540

I would upgrade your wheels and slap some supersport 4S tires back on. Leave them your year round tires and once you spend another year or two advancing up the ranks grab some NT01s and drop them on your lobster wheels.

MP4S tires are fantastic dual duty tires given your experience level and the convenience of not having to swap wheels and tires as well as the longevity of the MP4S tires sell me to keep it simple. Just my opinion.

On another note, try to take the pressure off of yourself for advancing in the ranks. Enjoy instructed training and realize many spend big bucks for that type of input. I spent a decade driving intermediate groups and in hindsight wasn't missing much.....

Kitc2246

First putting on another set of PS4S is not wrong. Getting a dedicated set of 18s with 200TW tires is good next step, now or later. I use Hankook RS4s for their wear on 18s for my 2013 Boxster S. Camber plates or adjustable LCAs are needed to get front negative camber to save the outside front edges.

Apex Wheels

It is important to talk about the pros and cons of specific tire compounds, as apposed to tire categories as a whole. There is very stiff competition among tire manufacturers in the 200 tread wear Extreme Summer tire space nowadays which has resulted in compounds that are quite fast on track but also wear considerably faster than some R-compounds. For example Bridgestone RE-71R (now discontinued), Falken RT-660, Nankang CR-S, and Yokohama A052 are all labeled as 200 TW "Extreme Summer tires", but they are all faster than Nitto NT-01s and will also wear at a much quicker rate as well. These 200 TW tires I mentioned are all fantastic tires that can be used on both the street and race track, however, if someone is buying them for longevity based on the 200 TW label they carry, they are going to be quite disappointed. There is always a trade-off of speed/grip vs longevity.

Hankook RS-4 (200TW) - A true 200 TW Extreme Summer tire that will give you a little more grip over most street tires including Michelin PS4S, and they last forever. These tires are often used in endurance racing like Lucky Dog, etc. but they don't come in sizes friendly for a 911.

Nitto NT01(100TW) - An R-compound that offers a considerable amount of grip over Michelin PS4S and Hankook RS-4s, but like the RS-4 these tires wear like iron. They go lap after lap without complaining, and they don't really heat cycle out - you can wear them until they chord. The downside (for some) is that they are not great in the rain, and although they can easily be driven to and from the track, they shouldn't be used day to day on the street.

Falken RT660, Nankang CR-S, and Yokohama A052 are all very capable " 200TW Extreme Summer tires" that will be faster than NT01s, but they are also more temperamental and will wear considerably quicker. They are better in the rain in comparison to the NT-01, and can also be used for street driving.

All of these are great options for someone moving up from Michelin PS4S tires looking for more grip. What is a good option for one driver may not be considered great in the eyes of another based on their priorities - grip, longevity, ability to handle rain, sizing availability, price, etc.

- Ryan

Olemiss540

Great summary and my thoughts exactly! Also can recommend the RC-1 tire as a sticky option with lotsa size options and lasts forever..... Good competitor for the NT01 who I think reigns supreme from a HPDE standpoint in terms of longevity, stickinesss, and consistency standpoint. Really amazing considering their age.

steveP911

Thanks Ole Miss. So here's a little more background to explain where I am on this and why I might lean in a slightly different direction. In 2020, I turned 65 (pretty much retired) and did 6 events / 12 days in HPDE Green/Blue (Blue depending on the region/group); mostly Green. Before that I did 5 events and 8 track days over the course of 4 years. Kinda piddled around, in retrospect. So, I feel that my fire is finally fully lit but I'm realizing I don't have that many years of DE left (not being morbid, just practical). This means I am looking for a modest step forward from the MP4S tire and I would like to do it now (this season). And, I sorta want to have my cake and eat it too, by sticking with one setup for track and street (outside of winter). My use of the car is becoming about 3/4 track and 1/4 street, but the latter is limited to good weather for the purposes of enjoyment and keeping the car limber between events. I would use the lobsters with a decent all-season tire during the winter (I don't shut down, I just watch for good weather to keep the car from sitting too much). I am waiting for my 2022 Ford Ranger delivery so I can trailer the car to events and limit the highway miles and bad outcomes from car trouble far from home.

I do appreciate your comment about not feeling pressure - I don't think I do, but I know you are right that it can cause safety issues or decrease fun. I do enjoy the instructors - I think the PCA Potomac region has great people and a solid organization for HPDE. Ideally, my track day would be half instructed and half solo. I have no illusions about making it to the Black/Red run groups, and I am 100% fine with that. My biggest reason for wanting advancement out of Green is that I feel I cannot really improve enough there anymore (gosh I hope that does not sound high minded), since slow traffic / trains are common. I just try to work on slower speed refinement of my line and smoothness, etc. Yes, I do/will get passed more in Blue, but that doesn't bother me at all (mostly ).

Thanks again. I hope my response helps explain things better.

Steve

Frank 993 C4S

Don't overthink your tire choices at this point. Just enjoy the journey until you can get a trailer.

18" wheels are an inevitable investment for dedicated track driving given the broader tire choices. With wheels, you get what you pay for. The cheapest wheels, like the OZs are soft and bend easily. Even the strongest wheels cycle out over time and crack so they need to be checked.

steveP911

Thanks Frank. You are not the first to tell me not to overdo the tire thought process. Wise advice. I think I have decided on the Falken RT660's. I am also leaning towards the 18" Apex SM-10 wheels, which do seem to carry some credibility re strength (but yes, always inspect them).

I hope to receive my 2022 Ford Ranger in the next month or two (four month production cycle ), so I will be trailering my car as much as possible in the future. BTW, I like the U-Haul trailer route after talking with others at VIR in October. I have no room for a trailer....

Cheers,
Steve

Frank 993 C4S

I'd suggest you look at forged wheels also as they are much stronger. Search in the Cayenne forum under trailering with a U-Haul. It can be done but you need to be aware of the downsides.

steveP911

Thanks Frank.

Can't argue that forged wheels are stronger and lighter than flow-formed wheels. But at my level of track driving, I guess I can't justify spending another $200-$300 per wheel (ref Apex site for SM-10 and EC-7RS) to shave 3 lbs of weight and add 50 lbs of strength. I wish I could justify that by being a better driver, but I'm not there yet. The cost difference is at least a couple DE events, and that's where I need to spend my money now (on seat time).

I've done a lot of research on trailer rentals (on RL and elsewhere) and have found that U-Haul is a decent value if you get a new/clean one, prepare for resolving the ramp and front stop issues, recognize it is heavy (2200 lbs), and drive sensibly (probably limit to 55 mph, at least on hills). My plan is, once I get the pickup, to rent a trailer for one day just for the purposes of going through the whole process and ensuring I have adequate blocking and safe restraints/connections. I am going to make a setup to check my tongue weight. I do plan on front loading the car. I have looked at posters with rear-loaded 911's and wonder if they have checked their actual tongue weight against the tow vehicle and trailer limits. Obviously I'll then drive the loaded trailer around to get comfortable with things. I don't want to figure out all that stuff the day before an event.

Thanks for the advice and warnings.

Steve

Jake951

For track tire ratings, check out this tire guide. There is a lot of good info there. Keep in mind, it's only one opinion but it's a good starting point for comparing pros and cons of the different tires and tire classes.

Glyndellis

I'd also add Nitto NT05 as an option to the RS-4 as a true 200TW longer lasting track tire, subject to them being available in your sizes. I've run both (but not on a 911) and found them to have similar characteristics.

Papamurphdog

I used one set of Nitto 01's last season and in hindsight, I probably shoudl have changed them out fror a fresh set after 12th or 14th track day. I did 20 days last season (went a littel nuts), and since it was my first season on the Nittos' and with my car, only later did I come to realize that the tires were giving up (plus I was driveing harder). I'd say they do "heat cycle" but certainly not like others. I didn't chord them, and the wear dimples are still on all 4 tires, but the rears are basically slicks and the fronts still have some rubber left (I've already added a smidge more camber, per the shop's advice), but the rubber is certainly "harder" than when newer. With the wear, I'll be running these until Nankang makes sizes I can use. Planning on running 10 to 12 event days, then change them out tihs time around. Again, just running HPDE, so not worried about absolute quickest tire. Quick and long lasting is nice.

Papamurphdog

Before you buy a truck and think about hauling, see my solution below. You can get a Leroy Engineering trailer and a hidden hitch from Sporttows for a fraction of the cost of a tow vehicle and trailer. Super simple and you can have dedicated track tires! This photo is old. The 18" Apex SM-10's wiht Nitto 01's are on the tfrailer in tihs photo. However, I also bought a matching set in the Anthricite color, and run MS Super Sports on them and my "Street/Wet" set up. Same size, so my suspension set up works with both sets. Note: I have two sets of track wheels from Apex for the cost of one set of forged from anyone else. The Super Sports rock in the wet and they are decent on the street as well. Jsut my two cents worth...

Have rig, will travel...

Papamurphdog

Here are the silver SM-10's on my black car... ;-)

steveP911

Very nice - thanks Papamurphdog ()! That's pretty much a perfect match with my 997.1. I see from your previous post those are 18's like I am looking at. Thanks for the pic!!

Steve