Summit Race!
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09-21-2022, 09:08 AM
#47
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Thread Starter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ5zKym1P8c
@Strimdog You mean this video? Not sure what your driver was thinking - or maybe he just wasn't - but I do know that stupid move dented a brand new, freshly painted 930 fender and wrinkled my door. And to what end? It was a poorly executed AND reckless move ... with zero payoff.
I personally watched cars from the ECR camp playing bumper cars on the starts; one rockstar decided to start racing before the green and missed the wave-off; and of course, this incident. Add some of the post race antics and you guys have not done yourselves any favors ...
@Strimdog You mean this video? Not sure what your driver was thinking - or maybe he just wasn't - but I do know that stupid move dented a brand new, freshly painted 930 fender and wrinkled my door. And to what end? It was a poorly executed AND reckless move ... with zero payoff.
I personally watched cars from the ECR camp playing bumper cars on the starts; one rockstar decided to start racing before the green and missed the wave-off; and of course, this incident. Add some of the post race antics and you guys have not done yourselves any favors ...
09-21-2022, 09:24 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
@Van Thst was you already in the carousel?!!
What went through your mind as you saw him approaching?!!. That's not something many would be prepared for while going through that part of the track! I was wonderimg if you, the driver, just never saw him coming and stuck to driving, or yiu saw it and adjusted your driving accordingly. Either wsy, you handled it well!
Sadly, I would've panicked and stomped on the brakes probably.
Curious what that kind of experience is like from someone involved.
What went through your mind as you saw him approaching?!!. That's not something many would be prepared for while going through that part of the track! I was wonderimg if you, the driver, just never saw him coming and stuck to driving, or yiu saw it and adjusted your driving accordingly. Either wsy, you handled it well!
Sadly, I would've panicked and stomped on the brakes probably.
Curious what that kind of experience is like from someone involved.
Last edited by Prelude Guy; 09-21-2022 at 09:26 AM.
09-21-2022, 09:48 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
These kinds of shenanigans (which I seem to read about after every race) are the reason I really don’t think I’ll ever have any interest in participating in PCA Club Racing.
It just seems like it is pretty much guaranteed that contact will be made between cars and I’m not interested in that. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking this way either.
It just seems like it is pretty much guaranteed that contact will be made between cars and I’m not interested in that. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking this way either.
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09-21-2022, 10:00 AM
#50
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Thread Starter
Wasn't there, but heard from someone I trust that when someone went over to the "Texas Paddock" to discuss their nonsense they were met with threats and violence... no bueno PCA..
Last edited by Gary R.; 09-21-2022 at 10:01 AM.
09-21-2022, 10:21 AM
#51
Race Car
These kinds of shenanigans (which I seem to read about after every race) are the reason I really don’t think I’ll ever have any interest in participating in PCA Club Racing.
It just seems like it is pretty much guaranteed that contact will be made between cars and I’m not interested in that. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking this way either.
It just seems like it is pretty much guaranteed that contact will be made between cars and I’m not interested in that. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking this way either.
It's the concern of that mindset among the participants that gives me no motivation to build or buy a car to start a club racing career running Porsches. If the type of behavior at these events is indicative of what other groups experience, I will start with cars that cost a lot less money than a Boxster, Cayman or 911.
09-21-2022, 10:24 AM
#52
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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These kinds of shenanigans (which I seem to read about after every race) are the reason I really don’t think I’ll ever have any interest in participating in PCA Club Racing.
It just seems like it is pretty much guaranteed that contact will be made between cars and I’m not interested in that. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking this way either.
It just seems like it is pretty much guaranteed that contact will be made between cars and I’m not interested in that. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking this way either.
1. Go home in one piece;
2. My car goes home shiny side up;
3. Don't be "that guy";
4. Have fun and win races!
Just about every racers I know has a variation of these goals that keeps them playing nice with everyone else. There are a few bad apples but they do get weeded out. What happened at Summit is more of an aberration for PCA.
09-21-2022, 10:25 AM
#53
ECR is a big group, and highly branded, so it’s easy to generalize the decisions of individuals. Unfortunately the level of aggressiveness is in the field, and is fairly contagious. My car also came away with minor damage from an aggressive cut (nothing to do with ECR), and I felt pressured to minimize it w/ the stewards. I don’t want to ruin anyone’s points race but one way to help your season podium is to not hit out-of-class cars. The sad part for me is that I know of two good drivers that are considering dropping out of ClubRacing after NJ and SP. There were a lot of complaints about a combined run group, but that and canceled events will be the inevitable outcome if our numbers continue to shrink.
edit: also, to be open/honest the event overall was a blast for me. There was great competition, collaboration, I learned a ton, and deepened friendships.
edit: also, to be open/honest the event overall was a blast for me. There was great competition, collaboration, I learned a ton, and deepened friendships.
Last edited by Difool; 09-21-2022 at 10:38 AM.
09-21-2022, 10:30 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
ECR drivers are being judged based on the downward spiral of their continued poor behavior on the track. You know that, too. How did ECR drivers behave at Sonoma? Were those videos reviewed? Did anyone learn anything before going to Summit? At Summit, ECR drivers behaved poorly not just during the races, but also during the practice on Friday. The drivers from ECR consistently and intentionally make grossly risky decisions, lap after lap, day after day, track after track! Those are NOT MISTAKES - they are poor decisions that adults intentionally, knowingly, actively chose to execute.
You will respect those that respect you. Is that a threat? What the f does that even mean? What about respecting that behind the wheels of the other cars on track is a father, a mother, a brother, a sister, a husband, a wife? And if they don't come home after a weekend of amateur racing due to a bunch of yahoos who enjoy testing their luck while they're next to someone else, those families will be devastated. What are you going to tell that family? PM you their bills? For the rest of their lives? Maybe you don't care about causing catastrophic injury to yourself and your family doesn't care that you will never hug them again. I don't respect people who don't respect themselves or the lives of other people.
You DO want to be judged as a whole - for the good stuff, right? "We spend a great deal of time working on what rests on the top of our shoulders..." "All video is being reviewed with coaches and we are taking this opportunity to learn..." It's just that when it comes to the bad stuff, then you don't. You all act as a whole. In fact, your whole post is on behalf of your whole. (Yes, I was tempted to misspell that last word.)
Just as easy as it is to distance yourself from the fact that in the other cars on the track are actual people with lives and loved ones, it's easy to type page after page of dribble and apologies of "don't hate me because I'm beautiful" on the internet. If you can admit that Sprint 1 was a disaster, why didn't someone walk around the paddock after that sprint and talk to the other SPB drivers in person, face-to-face? Why did nothing change in Sprint 2? Why did it get worse in the Enduro? Did you and your whole not look at any video until today, at which point you thought, "Holy f! I need to kick into damage control..."
Actions speak louder than words. Fool me in Sprint 1, shame on me. Fool me in Sprint 2, shame on you and your whole. Did you and your whole watch your videos Friday night? Saturday night? Were you and your whole laughing your holes off and giving each other props for how you and your whole got other drivers to move over?
Have fun racing with only you and your whole at ECR, because racing with others is not about how deep your pockets are, it’s about the people, and no amount of bourbon is going to make you and your whole pretty enough for me to want to race with.
Why don't you and your whole tell us how many of the ECR drivers came to Summit with 13s and how many left with 13s and 13-13s? Better yet, how about those holes tell us themselves.
You will respect those that respect you. Is that a threat? What the f does that even mean? What about respecting that behind the wheels of the other cars on track is a father, a mother, a brother, a sister, a husband, a wife? And if they don't come home after a weekend of amateur racing due to a bunch of yahoos who enjoy testing their luck while they're next to someone else, those families will be devastated. What are you going to tell that family? PM you their bills? For the rest of their lives? Maybe you don't care about causing catastrophic injury to yourself and your family doesn't care that you will never hug them again. I don't respect people who don't respect themselves or the lives of other people.
You DO want to be judged as a whole - for the good stuff, right? "We spend a great deal of time working on what rests on the top of our shoulders..." "All video is being reviewed with coaches and we are taking this opportunity to learn..." It's just that when it comes to the bad stuff, then you don't. You all act as a whole. In fact, your whole post is on behalf of your whole. (Yes, I was tempted to misspell that last word.)
Just as easy as it is to distance yourself from the fact that in the other cars on the track are actual people with lives and loved ones, it's easy to type page after page of dribble and apologies of "don't hate me because I'm beautiful" on the internet. If you can admit that Sprint 1 was a disaster, why didn't someone walk around the paddock after that sprint and talk to the other SPB drivers in person, face-to-face? Why did nothing change in Sprint 2? Why did it get worse in the Enduro? Did you and your whole not look at any video until today, at which point you thought, "Holy f! I need to kick into damage control..."
Actions speak louder than words. Fool me in Sprint 1, shame on me. Fool me in Sprint 2, shame on you and your whole. Did you and your whole watch your videos Friday night? Saturday night? Were you and your whole laughing your holes off and giving each other props for how you and your whole got other drivers to move over?
Have fun racing with only you and your whole at ECR, because racing with others is not about how deep your pockets are, it’s about the people, and no amount of bourbon is going to make you and your whole pretty enough for me to want to race with.
Why don't you and your whole tell us how many of the ECR drivers came to Summit with 13s and how many left with 13s and 13-13s? Better yet, how about those holes tell us themselves.
The point I was making about respect is it goes both ways. There was an incident where someone came to our paddock very heated and was convinced our guy turned into him in T1. He was very disrespectful and would not even watch the video with us. He had plenty of room and hit our guy plain and simple. No one, and I mean NO ONE is distancing themselves from the fact another person is in the car. You're entitled to your opinion but this goes both ways. We see our involvement where we are truly at fault and are working to adjust. The LAST thing we want is for folks to think we don't care about their and our safety. I am sorry you're so upset. Please know you've been heard.
Last edited by Strimdog; 09-21-2022 at 10:39 AM.
09-21-2022, 10:37 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
ABSOLUTELY FALSE! I was there and IN NO WAY did we instigate this. There is not one single person in our paddock that is confrontational or you can't speak to. This was my point about respect. That conversation began with 3 sentences all of them were FU. That didn't come out of our mouths. WE offered to watch video, We even tried walking away, We tried to apologize. Fact was that person came to our paddock and made it personal from his first word. After a perceived wrong it's always good to take a min to calm down and then go over. We all know that. This was something we could have easily discussed and then watched the video and perception and reality would have been aligned.
09-21-2022, 10:43 AM
#56
Race Car
There was some great racing going on at Summit that is getting overshadowed by a higher than normal number of incidents this year. As usual, Potomac Region put on another great event. Kudos to the race chairs and volunteers for making this race a must do on the PCA Club Racing calendar.
09-21-2022, 10:50 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
@Van Thst was you already in the carousel?!!
What went through your mind as you saw him approaching?!!. That's not something many would be prepared for while going through that part of the track! I was wonderimg if you, the driver, just never saw him coming and stuck to driving, or yiu saw it and adjusted your driving accordingly. Either wsy, you handled it well!
Sadly, I would've panicked and stomped on the brakes probably.
Curious what that kind of experience is like from someone involved.
What went through your mind as you saw him approaching?!!. That's not something many would be prepared for while going through that part of the track! I was wonderimg if you, the driver, just never saw him coming and stuck to driving, or yiu saw it and adjusted your driving accordingly. Either wsy, you handled it well!
Sadly, I would've panicked and stomped on the brakes probably.
Curious what that kind of experience is like from someone involved.
When I saw him in the rearview mirror, my first thought was, "Wow, I remember doing that in iRacing once! But never have seen it in real life!"
Perhaps I'm different from other racers, but I typically treat the "morning warmup" as a way to bring the car up to temp, make sure the track surface hasn't changed overnight, make sure the car is functioning properly, and make sure I'm mentally ready. It's not to drive 10/10th and set the lap record - so I was surprised to see such an off.
Last edited by Van; 09-21-2022 at 11:06 AM.
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09-21-2022, 10:56 AM
#58
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Thread Starter
There was some great racing going on at Summit that is getting overshadowed by a higher than normal number of incidents this year. As usual, Potomac Region put on another great event. Kudos to the race chairs and volunteers for making this race a must do on the PCA Club Racing calendar.
09-21-2022, 11:14 AM
#59
This T10 SPB get together was posted on youtube a few days ago
Kind of a cheeky dive bomb which, by PCA standards, would have been blamed on the passing car. It takes time to learn who'll give up a turn and who'll make life difficult for you. Pretty ambitious pass at best.
09-21-2022, 11:50 AM
#60
Perfect Angel
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Jeff I believe you are sincere but you have to understand that some of the ECR branded drivers really really pissed people off this weekend. I wasn't kidding when I said I'd never seen on track behavior like that. I've not been to ECR but if this is how you guys play with each other on that track you need to keep it there. Summit Point is not a place where you can push each other off track, run off into the wide open prairie and resume racing. You have to know the track you are racing and respect it. There are huge consequences in several turns at SP. Huge.
It's one thing to be fast but reckless is something else entirely.
You are correct. It's not the entire ECR stable. I just watch Dan's video. That's a great example of respectfully moving through traffic. He presented himself, he never forced it, if it wasn't right he backed out and set it up for the next opportunity. That is nice driving.
Unfortunately ECR has earned the reputation that proceeded you. And you only solidified it over the past weekend.
For example, at WG there was a situation where there were three cars nose to tail coming up out of the boot (t7). If you get a run in 7 its a good place to pass. We'll use cars A,B and C in that order. Car A is an ECR car and the bad actor in this situation. Car A is leading, car B gets a run and goes to the inside up the hill. Car A sees this and in an overt block squeezes car B almost into the grass which would have caused a serious accident as anyone knows who has wrecked there. In the process of car A trying to run car B off the track car C sneaks up the outside (on the traditional racing line). Car A notices this and in another egregious blocking move he abandons his squeeze on car B and throws his car from track right all the way across the track to block car C and then for good measure brake checks car C into T8.
This is not racing.
It's bullying. It's not impressive. It doesn't earn respect.
This is why ECR is getting so much blowback right now. It's been building. The paddock has had enough.
I do appreciate your willingness to post here and have the discussion and I do think you are listening. Good on you.
None of us are perfect.
Except me. My cat is pretty awesome too.
It's one thing to be fast but reckless is something else entirely.
You are correct. It's not the entire ECR stable. I just watch Dan's video. That's a great example of respectfully moving through traffic. He presented himself, he never forced it, if it wasn't right he backed out and set it up for the next opportunity. That is nice driving.
Unfortunately ECR has earned the reputation that proceeded you. And you only solidified it over the past weekend.
For example, at WG there was a situation where there were three cars nose to tail coming up out of the boot (t7). If you get a run in 7 its a good place to pass. We'll use cars A,B and C in that order. Car A is an ECR car and the bad actor in this situation. Car A is leading, car B gets a run and goes to the inside up the hill. Car A sees this and in an overt block squeezes car B almost into the grass which would have caused a serious accident as anyone knows who has wrecked there. In the process of car A trying to run car B off the track car C sneaks up the outside (on the traditional racing line). Car A notices this and in another egregious blocking move he abandons his squeeze on car B and throws his car from track right all the way across the track to block car C and then for good measure brake checks car C into T8.
This is not racing.
It's bullying. It's not impressive. It doesn't earn respect.
This is why ECR is getting so much blowback right now. It's been building. The paddock has had enough.
I do appreciate your willingness to post here and have the discussion and I do think you are listening. Good on you.
None of us are perfect.
Except me. My cat is pretty awesome too.
Last edited by Streak; 09-21-2022 at 02:38 PM.
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