What's the stance on tipping HPDE instructors?
12-05-2022, 09:04 PM
#136
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I will answer two of your questions in one response:
First: 1, unless you have now taken up sailing or offshore instructing!
Second: You cannot be serious here. Every student is charged somewhere between $125 -$175 per event by the region depending on the event to have the instruction. What's worse, most student's don't have a choice (if they want to drive) and are held hostage for years paying for instructors (in one region but not another). The main reason I left my home region, is that they were costing me an extra $1,500 - $2,000 per year). Listen, I am not trying to be a crusader here, but after being charged for instruction (which I paid for) and then this thread on tipping was just "hot oil on an open wound".
As for you getting paid, I suggest you instructor guys get together and find out what the hell is really going on, because you have no clue or you thought your discounted event fees were due to your good looks!
First: 1, unless you have now taken up sailing or offshore instructing!
Second: You cannot be serious here. Every student is charged somewhere between $125 -$175 per event by the region depending on the event to have the instruction. What's worse, most student's don't have a choice (if they want to drive) and are held hostage for years paying for instructors (in one region but not another). The main reason I left my home region, is that they were costing me an extra $1,500 - $2,000 per year). Listen, I am not trying to be a crusader here, but after being charged for instruction (which I paid for) and then this thread on tipping was just "hot oil on an open wound".
As for you getting paid, I suggest you instructor guys get together and find out what the hell is really going on, because you have no clue or you thought your discounted event fees were due to your good looks!
Is that what you meant by “being paid”?
Do you understand that we are still paying to instruct and not the other way around?
Be honest. I know you yes? 991.1 Blue GT3 Car # 910?
12-05-2022, 10:10 PM
#137
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I have no clue where you get this. Every region I run with charges the same amount for run group whether instructed or not.
As had been said numerous times, most instructors do it to give back NOT for incentives (which vary greatly by regions btw: from zip, zilch, nada for small regions to freebie with large ones but maybe then you have up to 2 students). What about all those instructors that support events and don't drive. Yeah, they are there for the camaraderie.
SmH
As had been said numerous times, most instructors do it to give back NOT for incentives (which vary greatly by regions btw: from zip, zilch, nada for small regions to freebie with large ones but maybe then you have up to 2 students). What about all those instructors that support events and don't drive. Yeah, they are there for the camaraderie.
SmH
Instructors get a discount - everyone else pays the same price. If there is a region with a different policy it would be interesting to know which.
If my car is in the shop, and there is an event with my region, I am still there. At CVR's last event of the year we had an instructor coming off an injury and he could not drive - he still came to instruct.
Honestly, I don't want to give this thread any more oxygen if we are continuing on this false premise. Its much more important to get back to tipping instructors with hookers and blow.
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12-05-2022, 11:37 PM
#138
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Blue car driver is right. Some regions in zone 1 do indeed charge their instructed students nominally higher track fees than solo drivers.
Big whoop. Blue car driver paid $50 a day “extra” as an instructed student. Describing this as “paying for an instructor” is insulting.
Big whoop. Blue car driver paid $50 a day “extra” as an instructed student. Describing this as “paying for an instructor” is insulting.
Last edited by mhm993; 12-05-2022 at 11:48 PM.
12-06-2022, 08:57 AM
#139
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Blue car driver is right. Some regions in zone 1 do indeed charge their instructed students nominally higher track fees than solo drivers.
Big whoop. Blue car driver paid $50 a day “extra” as an instructed student. Describing this as “paying for an instructor” is insulting.
Big whoop. Blue car driver paid $50 a day “extra” as an instructed student. Describing this as “paying for an instructor” is insulting.
12-06-2022, 09:01 AM
#140
Nordschleife Master
I have also seen events with instructed groups being $50-100 more, but u would highly disagree with the statement above. I work very hard to be able to play in this sport and if i get no value at a premium price im pissed. Doesnt matter if its from lack luster coaching or an over priced porsche part.
I would say that my instruction over the last 2 years has been a mix of 2 different styles. Some instructors just want to sit in the car and make sure u r safe. If i get one like this i wonder around and talk to other instructors with more technical knowledge. The second kind of instructor can actually feel what my car is doing and can commnicate how to improve my skills. I make it a point to ask for this type of coach if im on a new track. I dont think i have had a bad coach.....just different.
Oh and ill add that the best instructor i have ever had was a spec cayman driver. The guy really understood the car and was excited for every corner.
12-06-2022, 02:22 PM
#141
Additional instructed drivers can only be added if there are enough instructors available. This can limit the size of run groups depending on availability of instructors. Solo drivers can be added to the capacity of the run group
12-06-2022, 04:12 PM
#142
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Originally Posted by 991carreradriver
Doubtful!
12-06-2022, 04:44 PM
#143
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Funny thing is that Peter wasn't even talking to him when he said that. I think he was talking to our left coast pal Winders..... (Of course, I could have read it wrong as I seem to do here on RL quite often).
I know 911carreradriver, or I should say I know who he is. It took a bit of looking back into some past evals, but he is exactly who I thought he was, just needed to confirm it.
I do know him and have been on track with him and have had a chat or 3 with his instructors in the paddock.
The only conclusion I was able to come to was that the instructors WERE NOT the issue at all. They were just getting the blame finger pointed at them.
I think it was a Metro event last year or the year before, I was asked by the CI at the event if I could take another student for a couple sessions, just maybe even one session.
When I asked why, I was told that there were some issues with his current instructor, so I went and talked to the instructor (who is a friend from the track), and he was visibly shaken up from his last session with 911careradriver and said he wasn't getting back in the car with him.
I gratefully and respectfully declined the assignment as well after I found out what was going on.
As previously thought, the instructor was NOT the problem, just the guy who got the finger pointed at him by 911carreradriver.
Hard to believe that a student doesn't understand the risk that an instructor/coach puts himself in when getting in the right seat of a stranger's car, and what's worse, when the student doesn't listen, or continues to drive 100% way over his head, even with the coach in the car, that risk level goes way up, BUT we do it anyway, just to pay it forward.
I now understand why this guy doesn't like Metro or NNJR instructors, but rest assured, it is not on the instructor.
This whole thing sounded fishy to begin with, but now, I am sure. The instructors were not the problem, which I should have figured out sooner seeing as this was not an isolated incident between student and instructor.
This was not a one off. This seemed to be a regular occurrence with this particular student and ANY instructor he had. (Or by his own admission, at least 95% of his instructors).
And for the record, I've had a couple of really tough students (I think we all have at some point), but it was always handled by pitting the driver in and having a chat.
That always did the trick for me with the very limited number of these type students I had.
Unfortunately, I don't think that 911carreradriver's instructors were able to get through to him, even after pitting him in and talking with him, hence his venom towards PCA instructors.
The real shame, this driver has had some super high-end instructors in his right seat, but the result seemed to always be the same.
Reminds me of my kids when they were 3 and 4 years old. I guess some folks are just un-coachable, kinda like Jeremy Shockey when my beloved Giants got him. All the talent in the world, great tight end, the 2nd coming of Marc Bavaro, but 100% un-coachable. That is a shame.
I know 911carreradriver, or I should say I know who he is. It took a bit of looking back into some past evals, but he is exactly who I thought he was, just needed to confirm it.
I do know him and have been on track with him and have had a chat or 3 with his instructors in the paddock.
The only conclusion I was able to come to was that the instructors WERE NOT the issue at all. They were just getting the blame finger pointed at them.
I think it was a Metro event last year or the year before, I was asked by the CI at the event if I could take another student for a couple sessions, just maybe even one session.
When I asked why, I was told that there were some issues with his current instructor, so I went and talked to the instructor (who is a friend from the track), and he was visibly shaken up from his last session with 911careradriver and said he wasn't getting back in the car with him.
I gratefully and respectfully declined the assignment as well after I found out what was going on.
As previously thought, the instructor was NOT the problem, just the guy who got the finger pointed at him by 911carreradriver.
Hard to believe that a student doesn't understand the risk that an instructor/coach puts himself in when getting in the right seat of a stranger's car, and what's worse, when the student doesn't listen, or continues to drive 100% way over his head, even with the coach in the car, that risk level goes way up, BUT we do it anyway, just to pay it forward.
I now understand why this guy doesn't like Metro or NNJR instructors, but rest assured, it is not on the instructor.
This whole thing sounded fishy to begin with, but now, I am sure. The instructors were not the problem, which I should have figured out sooner seeing as this was not an isolated incident between student and instructor.
This was not a one off. This seemed to be a regular occurrence with this particular student and ANY instructor he had. (Or by his own admission, at least 95% of his instructors).
And for the record, I've had a couple of really tough students (I think we all have at some point), but it was always handled by pitting the driver in and having a chat.
That always did the trick for me with the very limited number of these type students I had.
Unfortunately, I don't think that 911carreradriver's instructors were able to get through to him, even after pitting him in and talking with him, hence his venom towards PCA instructors.
The real shame, this driver has had some super high-end instructors in his right seat, but the result seemed to always be the same.
Reminds me of my kids when they were 3 and 4 years old. I guess some folks are just un-coachable, kinda like Jeremy Shockey when my beloved Giants got him. All the talent in the world, great tight end, the 2nd coming of Marc Bavaro, but 100% un-coachable. That is a shame.
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PTSFX (12-13-2022)
12-06-2022, 05:05 PM
#144
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Wow!!!!
12-06-2022, 07:15 PM
#146
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Suggest the mods lock this one. I have no dog in the fight, but getting ugly and personal. This thread is way off topic and not doing anyone any good at this point. Original question has been discussed thoroughly.
Last edited by ldamelio; 12-06-2022 at 07:17 PM.
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roadie13 (12-09-2022)
12-06-2022, 08:27 PM
#148
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Back on the real topic, I will say that when I locked up the championship this year after the sprint races, we did go to a Mexican restaurant on Saturday night where I "tipped" my coach, Steven McAleer, with copious amounts of margaritas! Please do not think less highly of him as he did accept these drinks and drank them like a true professional.
12-06-2022, 08:39 PM
#149
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He IS a true professional!
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Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
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LuigiVampa (12-06-2022)
12-06-2022, 09:05 PM
#150
