swartzzz

I have a question that I have been thinking about alot, lately. It pertains to tires. We know that a tires integrity are affected by age, method of storage, and wether they are exposed to the elements.
One would say, that tires are very important, possibly the MOST important factor, to the safety of a road going vehichle,
When we HPDE our cars, most PCA regions look for checks, cracks, rot, uneven wear, etc as it pertains to the condition of the tires. As an example, they say no less than 2/32, no damage, etc.
In reality, very few talk about the AGE of the tire as it relates to the track rediness or worthiness.

During an inspection of a car with a Porsche dealership, they will either recommend or require you to replace at the 6yr mark on a road going vehicle.

Should there be a hard date where we are required to replace? Helmets, Head and Neck Restraints, harnesses for example have dates of expiration. Should we not do the same for tires?

Just looking for some discussion.

Glyndellis

Some organizations do require tires less than 6 yrs old. I try to wear them out before then!

Olemiss540

Not smart to be tracking on tires older than 7 years. Do I think PCA or other organizers should implement even more rules/prerequisites for extremely fringe scenarios? Nope. Enough rules in place as it is from a legal/liability standpoint thanks to the insurance companies involved.

Nickshu

I have served as a PCA tech inspector for HPDE for a few years now. I believe the PCA HPDE regs state 6 years or less on tire age, but I would have to look it up. Although enforcement of this may be variable by region. In our region we do 6 years or less, plus good visual shape, tread depth, etc.

Kitc2246

As you indicated tires age based on environmental conditions. DoD stores aircraft and vehicle tires to include natural rubber in humidity and temperature controlled warehouses well beyond 6 years. IMO the tire age just like 6 months on racing brake fluid is more about perceived risk and liability, not the actual condition of the tire or brake fluid. The additional time and resources to thoroughly inspect an "aged" tire are not practical so I get it. What I don't understand is why a moisture percentage test for brake fluid can't extend its life to at least one year.

Veloce Raptor

I would say the death of Paul Walker in the Carrera GT is ample indication of why tire age matters.

needmoregarage

The only mention of tire “requirements” in the PCA HPDE Minimum Standards is in the
PCA Minimum Standard Tech Form PDF (copy/pasted in red font):

”Tires: general good condition; no cracks, cuts, cords or blisters; the tires used at the track should be teched.”

The only other reference to tires with respect to HPDE that I could find on PCA.org is in a section within HPDE named “Tips” for HPDE, the following is shown (copy/pasted in red font). This is not a minimum standard. It is a “tip” (which I interpret as a suggestion). I bolded the sentence regarding tire age.
You must be logged into your PCA.org account to access: https://www.pca.org/drivers-educatio...e-participants , pasted here:

Before the track - preparation and what to take

Tires

• Keep an eye on tire pressures. Pressures can vary by one pound for every 10 degrees in temperature.
• Check tires when they're cold! It is not uncommon for tires at drivers ed events to increase 5-10 lbs during the course of the day.
• While we are talking tires, when was the last time they were balanced? An unbalanced tire will lead to uneven tread wear, not to mention the hand message you will get by trying to hold on to your steering wheel.
• How old are your tires? Many tires have a build code that is three digits following the DOT mark. Look for the this mark, it says "DOT" then three digits ex. "260" This means that this tire was manufactured during the 26th week of the year 2000.This is a great piece of knowledge when buying used tires, and the seller tells you that he just got them last year. A guideline is that tires, especially on the track, should not be used that are over 6 years old.
• If you are running street tires, add air to stiffen the tire and sidewall to provide better stability and less tire deformation.
• Learn to read your track tires. If the scrub marks fall short of the triangles around the tire, let out a little air. If the marks exceed the triangles, add some air.

Nowanker

Of course, having a driver acting like a complete IDIOT had nothing to do with that crash....

ProCoach

Agree on both counts. While I don't think there is an age rule or date check for most Regions or events in general, a grid check and instructor check showing lack of tread, cuts and tears, blistering and dry rot are dead giveaways.

I don't think I've ever worked with someone that has DOT tires (200TW and greater) less than three years old and DOT R-comp or slicks older than a year to fifteen months. First questions on my questionnaire are a) how old are your tires and b) do you have another set, preferably new, available.

The tires are your only connection with Mother Earth. A lot of what people need to do to go quicker depends on trusting the platform underneath them.

If there is one thing other than compressing brake zones, eliminating dead time and throttle commitment people change after working with me, it's implementing a good tire replacement strategy. One that doesn't get in their way of safety and being able to commit more and better.

Veloce Raptor

You're right. But (a) tire age was also a factor, and (b) nice diversion from the issue at hand

jerome951

I've had a few personal instances of using old tires (~8-10 years old in each case) with no ill effects except the rubber was a bit hard and they take a few extra laps to get grippy. I asked my tire dealer (former semi-pro racer) for advice: he checked them over for age cracking and said to just run them. These were always stored indoors and away from electric motors.
Both cases were rain tires I had bought but didn't use much due to lack of rain at races (a set of Hoo R7s and a set of Toyo RA1s). Eventually I decided to run them at DEs and they were fine, even the RA1s in the dry.

This is just my own experience and not intended to be a recommendation....

chudson

The PCA region where I am Tech Director has a 5 year tire rule which matches all of the PCA regions in the Southeast where I have driven or instructed. IIRC, this is also the recommendation that has been stated in the Porsche owners manuals for years.

Update: Just checked everyone’s tech sheets. Coastal Empire, Florida Crown and Carolinas Region are all 5 years. Florida Citrus accepts tires up to 6 years.

Cliff

Nowanker

I've been running the same NT01's now for a long *** time....
One pair (gasp!) might be 6 years old now, other probably 5.
Stored 2 years before finally being used.
Infrequently used, no sun/weather/ozone while stored.
Light car, big tire. No noticeable loss of grip.
Come up to speed right away. Stay consistent though 20min sessions, as long is the pressures are held steady.
Barring any physical damage, until they either cycle out or start showing cracks, I don't see any reason to toss them.

No doubt, I'm risking my own life, and putting everyone around me in danger of instant death.
Let those torches and pitchforks loose!

chudson

A good tire, but my durometer proves that they harden as they age and I can feel the handle difference and see the lap time difference when they start approaching 3 years old. My goal is to be done with them in no more than 2 years - 18 months is preferred

Cliff

Nowanker

Just checked the date codes.
Couldn't decipher them. They were written in Roman numerals....


No doubt they cycle out like any other tire, but NT01s, like their RA1 predecessor, take their time doing it.
These might not be quite as (relatively...) fast as they were when new, but they have retained all their consistency.
When grip starts fading mid-session, they'll be done.

They've really just been my development tires, and it's been a steep curve.
When I think the car will actually run for an entire day, these are done, with some Hoosiers are on tap.
I actually expect that to be this season!

No problem though, using Hoosiers for 5 years.
Just plain not gonna happen.