Van

I've watched that clip a bunch of times, now. I think the camera car (cayman) is more at fault than the 944 for failure to co-exist and leave racing room. I think this excuse of "I'm faster on the straights" is BS and the driver of the cayman wasn't aware of the car behind him - a car that didn't brake as much for a high-speed corner. The 944 was more "on-line" for setting up Oak Tree, and the cayman, while on the brakes, tracked too far to the left and caused the contact.

And, based on the "look" of the impact in the video, and the way the cayman kept driving, the "rub out" is probably the right call. I'm surprised the damage extends to "two wheels, rocker panel, door, fender and suspension" - are there pictures of the damage?

Difool

Van, finish watching the clip for the pictures.

NaroEscape

Pictures are at the end of the video. I don’t care what you think it “looks” like, anybody who has seen it in person knows it’s fairly substantial damage, more than a rub out.
Obviously with only one point of view you can interpret how you see it. But…
the line out of T10 to T11 is to track out to the right then come across to the left and set upfor T11. I tracked out and saw him off to my left so you’ll notice I DIDN'T come across his nose to my left - I stayed mid track compromising my T11 entry so as not to “block” or cut him off. He had room. And honestly at some point i needed to be looking forward because I’m braking, downshifting, turning and there is a car immediately in front of me. Everything that happened was in front of him, and behind me in my blind spot, while I'm looking ahead and toward the right so I don't hit the guy in front of me.
And again, the stewards that saw other video said he was at fault. They just decided to not issue a penalty.

Zhao

Just race what you're willing to lose without taking any financial hit. Racing is so much more enjoyable than HPDE's and time attack to avoid it because of fear of damaging a car.

But honestly I've been sprint racing in non-pca club racing since 2010ish and there are probably way more yahoos in that then PCA stuff, and yet excluding the 3 times I've been rammed from behind on a straightaway I've never made contact with a car. I've had no close calls. No one wiped out someone else near me. I may be lucky, but I personally think it takes 2 drivers messing up to get into an accident and situational awareness can solve almost any situation. The safest spots are either at the very front or the very back too IMO. Most problems will happen on a race start 1/3rd from the front. You can race nice stuff without much risk if you're on pole, or at the very back.

ProCoach

^^THIS^^

Incident tracking is number one to establish patterns of behavior. Whether a driver is found at fault or not, the fact that some drivers are requently in the vicinity of contact incidents is very telling. Without incident tracking, or even expunging those records after a short period of time, there's no way to concretely say that there is a problem. I think this is the motivation for what Vickie was saying at Sebring. Wish it had been better enforced at VIR.

@NaroEscape , if that is what this guy said (re: the CMP non-contact with you, but with another poster) and he blew it off, he doesn't get it and needs to be excused.

will968

Ed, the 944 driver, is a hired gun former stock car driver, who races for the car’s owner. He’s very good and usually wins most races, and the championship. Did someone cut him a break... who knows? He’s actually quite a nice guy.

ProCoach

I'm sure he's good. Does it matter? Does he get it?

Zhao

That's not how racing works. It's the responsibility of the passing car to initiate and complete a safe pass. The 944 was fully behind the cayman with room to spare and did an outside divebomb after the cayman started braking. That is 100% on the 944 for who is at fault there.

The cayman could have been some backmarker yugo race car and still would have had a right to his line in that corner.

Now OP could have probably done something differently leading up to the corner to protect himself better. A big rule of racing is make sure you finish the race and lots of cars have gotten written off owned by people who were in the right... There likely was signs this was a car to watch out for. It's likely he could have strategically let them by if their lap times were faster, or blocked more firmly if his lap times were better than the 944s. A different line in that corner wouldn't really have affected his lap times or had him get passed. I pretty much only sprint race in mixed classes and you generally never want to get involved with a battle with another class unless you're so far ahead in your own that you're bored. Better to slow down a bit and let them by, or run a blocking line to make sure they dont attempt to pass you until your back in a spot where you leave them in the dust. That's as far as you can blame OP IMO.

sbelles

Scratching my head trying to figure out why someone would hire a driver to club race?

will968

I guess it's cheaper than owning an Indy team. You get all sorts in racing LOL.

Clarification: 'hired gun,' was meant as a term and should have been in quotations. It’s actually not that uncommon to see the odd pro driver running an owner’s car in the upper GT classes at club races like Watkins Glen.

jdistefa

Isn't all the rub out talk enough?

Tim the Engineer

So I looked at the video a bunch of times.

I do not think that he was trying to pass on the outside, which is not possible when the inside car runs a "normal" line through this corner. I think he was trying to run wide and do a switch back on exit.

Without video from the other car and perhaps following cars, it is difficult to fully understand what transpired. The Point of View from one camera can be misleading.

Regardless, I am sorry for the damage you suffered. I have been there, and it is frustrating.

However, if you have only 2 incidents in 17 years, you are way better off than most. In 2022, I was hit once at Sebring, twice at VIR and I hit Angus at Road Atlanta...

PGas32

The more I watch the more I think I agree with this assessment, actually. The 944 is fully track left the entire time, and the camera car drifts over into him a bit…but a view from the 944 would be necessary to really assign any blame.

Also, you two were running within a couple tenths of each other all weekend, so why should he not have attempted a pass just because a long straight was coming up?

I’m sorry for the damage, especially since you’ve got a great looking car. To me, it’s a racing incident - an aggressive-ish move by the passing car ended in tears because the camera car made an unexpected move to the left.

All that said, I completely agree that if there’s a pattern here and the 944 driver is dismissive or flippant in regards to repeated contact, that’s a problem PCA needs to address.

Nowanker

I've raced, done DEs and timetrialed.
For sure, racing is a more intense experience... and I enjoy them both, but for me, the TT format is a more 'pure' experience.
It's about getting the most out of the car and track, and less about battling other people.
"Different strokes for different folks".

And back on topic, I got divebombed out of a BMWCCA race, turn 11 at Laguna.
The guy was totally apologetic.That alone almost made up for the damage.
They thirteened us both...

LuigiVampa

@Van If anyone but you had made this post I would have done a @ProCoach impression and sh*t all over your opinion. But because of your experience and respect in the paddock, you made me watch the video another bunch of times.

That being said, I didn't see anything to change my opinion that the 944 was at fault, and Bob's explanation that he altered his line (because he was driving heads-up in my opinion), only furthers my thoughts on who is at fault. Not only at fault, but I think the 944 was 100% at fault. Rarely can you say that but I am wondering what Bob was supposed to do other than drive an even more narrow line and brake even harder. As the leading car was it his obligation to drive his mirrors into this braking zone? I don't think so.

The 944 got in deep, ran out of track, and decided to use Bob as a bumper instead of going off. Consider that if the 944 had made the move on the inside most people would have labeled it a dive bomb. I think it still deserves that term although the move was done on the outside.

Let's say Bob gave him even more room. Where was he going as they headed into the next apex? It was an extremely low percentage move, and as the car looking to make the pass, he had the obligation to make it stick.

What are your thoughts after reading Bob's rebuttal?