txhokie4life

Based on last weekends NASCAR Cota race -- this explains a lot :-)

LuigiVampa

As an attorney I can tell you that you never want to hear the words penal and penile in the same sentence.

Veloce Raptor

And yet we just did...

Van

I did watch the video until the end - and now I see pics of the damage, which is more than I initially expected.

I also haven't seen any other video... and if the PCA stewards made a determination the 944 was at fault, I can respect that, since they have more information than I have.

Look, all contact on the track sucks. I've both been the perpetrator and the recipient. If there's anything I've learned, it's that you, as an individual, can do many things to *not* put yourself in a situation where contact is likely. If the OP was more to the left, or stayed more the the right, this might not have happened. But, clearly it did happen, maybe there are lessons to be learned, and we can all improve out skills.

ProCoach

Great post. I think this is the lesson that we all need to take away. Each of us makes dozens even hundred decisions each and every lap. Some of those decisions have some pretty severe consequences.

Van, the last paragraph is spot on. Thank you!

Julian Allen

Bob, sorry for the incident. But I found the problem--it's a 968, not a 944! JK!

Mikelly

For those of you using something like this as your argument to justify not club racing? Why bother posting? I mean, seriously, you are posting in a club racing thread_To club racers_ about why you don't club race? Move along Timmy.

For those of you who are on the tippie toe edge of starting to race, and seeing videos like these? My own first hand experience should calm your nerves. I've run 5 years club races with ONE report-able contact from another driver who decided to use me as a guardrail during qualifying a few years back. One contact (Damaged door and two fenders/damaged wrap) in 60+ sessions on track? O-N-E. And I still went on to qualify first in class and won the race that weekend and the trophy and $500 for tires/$100 for brakes. Make lemonaid whenever you can and remember those who "hit you" while racing. They may learn from their mistakes, but pay attention when they are near.

Now, for you "STEWARDS" out there. PAY ATTENTION. We're PAYING CUSTOMERS. Accidents happen. How YOU handle it makes all the difference in the world. It sets the expectation. It tells ALL OF US what the appropriate level of aggression is and how stepping over the line will be handled. Every driver has a different perspective and I know the 944 Driver (a very capable and skilled chap) has his own story, and maybe he has already plead his case or given his apology. But you're going to get a VERY UPSET IRISHMAN who won't be shy about sharing how upset he is over a decision that doesn't match YOUR expectations set forth by YOU, the OFFICIALS in THE CLUB.

I mean, for crying out loud CHUMPCAR handles contact immediately, and I'm sure we'd NEVER want PCA CLUB RACING to be looked down upon by those lemmings, would we?

Bob, Hopefully you are able to get it sorted. You were 100% in the right. Could you have slammed the door on him and taken his momentum? Sure. Hindsight/2020.

chudson

Actually, it's not. It is a 944 dressed to look like a 968. That does not diminish what the car can do nor how proficient Ed is at wheeling it around the track. It is well prepared and has a talented driver. The huge collection of podium decals speaks to that.

Bob, as to this incident, I'm also struggling to understand the definition of a rub out. With the degree of damage you have, I suppose we can now define a rub out as "any amount of damage not requiring a tow truck to remove the car from the track". Sorry this happened

Cliff

fatbillybob

I wonder what the hierarchy of clubs is in regards to gentlemen racing? Where is there least contact and where is there most?

NaroEscape

good question
we are vendors at PCA, BMW and NASA races and DE’s in the southeast. In our completely unscientific observation, I would say BMW has the least - but also the least cars on track typically, then PCA, then NASA…where bumping and banging is just fine.

Ironically, from the outside, A LOT of people view PCA as a wreckfest. One reason I see is that the cars are so much faster that a minor incident in say a Miata is a major wreck in a cup or other fast car…
I constantly find myself defending PCA racing. And in general I do believe PCA has less incidents.

Mike Roblin

Bob, where do you put HSR in your ranking?

LuigiVampa

Although I have not raced with them yet, I have registered with VSCCA and SVRA this year. I intend to do the SVRA race in my air-cooled at LRP this coming Memorial Day weekend. Both of the organizations stress "gentlemen racing" and VSCCA actually stresses that it is gentlemen racing and that you should not be anywhere close to being aggressive.

NaroEscape

I honestly don’t know much about HSR but I would suspect there is relatively low contact with them.

Frank 993 C4S

Avoid NASA. PCA and HSR and SVRA are my favorites (in that order) as any contact is usually sanctioned. It also really depends on the field size as PCA can at times have 60+ cars on track in a single session. HSR is professionally run but has a bias towards their legacy customers over newcomers when things go wrong. In about 150 races, about 125 of those with PCA, I have only been hit twice and neither of them was avoidable from my perspective. I have seen some spectacular single car crashes in HSR, but they certainly happen in other series too.

For comparison, here is a thread with video that someone posted from International GT at Road Atlanta recently. Look at 3:05 and 4:00 and allegedly the contact at 4:00 was considered a "racing incident".

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=13146

Tim the Engineer

HSR is pretty clean based on the few races that I have run with them. The field is much more spread out time-wise, however, and there are fewer competitive cars around, compared to the bigger PCA classes (SPB, GTB-1, etc.)

Camaraderie between drivers is way better than PCA. Expect a friendly visit from the people you battled with after the race.

Overall, due to the depth of field, I still find PCA to be the best racing.

Some of the less experienced Cup Car drivers scare the @$%& out of me, though. Ability to write a check should not be the sole criteria to driving some of these faster, more challenging cars