Jpark01

I have a 2018 Cayman GTS with current setup:

​​​​​​-Apex sm10 wheels
-falken rt660 tires
-scroth 6 point harness
-omp race seat
-rbf660 brake fluid
-pagid yellow brake pads
I have about 14 track days with this setup and feel I have maxed out the setup. I am now debating between upgrading the suspension/brakes and going with mcs 2 ways with supporting parts and ap racing radical brake kit OR 718 gt4.

My thought process is that going with the upgrades on the Cayman GTS will end up being cheaper and possibly a more enjoyable track experience than the gt4. What does everyone else think?

​​​​

ANGST

Paging @mr.t0fu aka GT4-ish

ProCoach

I don't know anyone who's been sorry about trading up.

gesmith55

Agree. Plus residual value of a GT4 >> any heavily modded car. Way easier to get money back from GT4.

Veloce Raptor

GT4. The end of an era!

facelvega

GT4.

Factory goodness ALWAYS beats DIY goodness.

... but I will also volunteer something you probably do not want to hear (and will probably refuse to hear)...

You can buy a faster car, and turn a faster lap, and that proves that the car is better.
You can buy expert coaching and a bunch of seat time, and turn a faster lap, and that proves YOU are better.

I was blessed to ride along in my car with Pat Long (thanks, Glen!) and Andy Lally (thanks VR!). What they did in my car versus what I did hammered home the point that there was huge potential that I was not (yet) capable of achieving. I went from a Cayman to a GT3, and had faster laps. My next move will be from a GT3 to a Miata, and with a sh|t ton of coaching and seat time, the result will be....faster laps.

...but it will be me, not the car.

However you proceed, this is a great hobby, with great people. Enjoy!!

Olemiss540

Well said. The quest for buying faster laps times, while easy, is never ending and not nearly as satisfying. The journey of personal growth through a consistent device/tool is the only way to get off that treadmill.

OP has a very capable car. There is no NEED for 10K in enhancements. That said I am a SUCKER for the cool factor/capability of a GT car :-).

Zhao

I'm biased but I ended up with a GT4 for a reason.

1) I don't like modifying street track cars. It's nice to have something not mucked with that you can track. You can adjust a fair bit with the GT4 but it needs some modifications so it's not perfect as is.
2) The GT4, while costs more upfront, will hold it's value better and on the back end is the far cheaper purchase. There is probably no better time to sell your 2.5L GTS than right now (or really a year ago) and you can probably find a low KM 2020 GT4 without getting gouged too bad. I got my GT4 for MSRP and I think at peak stupid I could have made 50g+ on it. I expect the price of GT4s may never dip below what I paid now too with how things have increased in price. Traditionally normal Cayman's depreciate quite badly. Dealers had to basically give your GTS away too; I remember those collecting dust on the lots with huge discounts. IMO someday things will go back to normal where you can get a discount on a 911 and cayman, and your GTS will depreciate heavily. If you switch to a GT4 you'll probably lose minimal, if at all.
3) NA is better than turbo for track work. Turbos just create heat, and even if they don't overheat, they heat soak. My fastest lap in my turbo car is my 2nd or 3rd lap of a track day. After that I never hit the same straightaway speeds again. If you're chasing laptimes how fun is it to know you car is only getting slower? My GT4 can bang around the track all day it seems like without issue.
4) The GT4 just looks better IMO.

There are cons though. It's far more expensive to run. Rotors, pads, tires are significantly more. You're stuck with 19s or 20s for tires, and selection sucks compared to 18s. Currently I can't get rear tires unless I buy cup2s :/ because everything else is backordered. Rear rotors are shared with a number of porsches and are almost free, but the fronts are $$$$$$$. Wear and tear components are GT car pricing. You'll need shims for proper camber, and if you read the 718 gt4 forum there is a real toe issue. If you pop an engine it's far more expensive than your 2.5L.


My opinion though is your car is fast enough to dominate as is. A 2.5 GTS is a little rocket ship. No matter how good you are, there is always room to go faster by improving your driver skill. My advice is any time you plateau go back to the basics of driving. Years into my driving I was still plateauing, throwing out everything I thought I knew, and just went back to the basics again for awhile and then I'd end up shaving off a ton of time yet again. I'd strongly consider a GT4 just because it makes more sense imo, but I think sticking to your GTS and not modifying it at all and banging your head against a wall trying to figure out how to go faster for a couple years would potentially do wonders for your driver skill if you have the right mindset.

I'd also say I didn't peak for my driving until about 10 years after I started track driving and a lot of those years my whole life revolved around racing, and I only peaked IMO because I started a family which became more important to me and sapped a lot of my extra time so I don't practice enough.

mr.t0fu

I'll chime in since I've been paged haha. @Jpark01 I was in a similar situation to you, I have a 19 Cayman GTS that I turned into a frankenstein GT4. I have many of the modifications that you are considering, and more. AP Radical BBK, Tractive coilover (with DSC), GT4 front and rear LCAs, front camber plates, TPC front and rear sway bars, Tarett rear drop links, GT2 seats, forgelines + 2 sets of apex forged wheels, OEM GT4 front bumper and rear wing, + many other random goodies. Anyway you get my point, I took the "let's build a GT4" route. I did this for a few reasons:

1. I love the torque of the flat 4, yes the 4.0 has good torque but the 4-cylinder has it everywhere all the time (perfect for track usage).
2. Had I gotten a GT4, I'm not sure if I would have kept it stock anyway - I probably would still have upgraded the brakes (the AP kit is amazing), I still would have upgraded the suspension, and I still would have swapped out the stock 20s to 18/19. Plus other things like wing risers, etc.
3. I got my GTS for a steal (pre-covid), so yes unique to me, but important to note that my lower cost of entry was a factor
4. General lower cost of other stuff, for example: track insurance (for me) was cheaper for the GTS.

I think my specific GTS is a more enjoyable track experience than a STOCK-ish GT4 (yes I've tracked both). I should say, again for me, suspension tuneability was key for me (I've done no power modifications) and with all the suspension bits I've put on my GTS I've really a built a car that is catered toward how I like to drive on track. Just for reference I've done 78 days in the last two years so I've had a little bit of time in the car . Anyway I've rambled on long enough, let me know if you have any questions and please, rennlisters, keep the flames low not pooping on the GT4, I just love my GTS aka GT4-ish .

Jpark01

I appreciate all the input everyone

Cyclman

Since my first HPDE, and the fact I have a Boxster, which I am ultimately not comfortable tracking as I get faster, I have had the same debate in my head. I have decided I am going to save for a GT4. First, it comes with most of the track goodies that I would want. Second, if I ever feel like I am maximizing the performance of the car, I can send it off to a tuner and upgrade it to a power output comparable to a GT3. Third, it is the most common car seen at my local track, so I know it could be easily sold, not that I would ever plan to do so. I think a frankencar would be more difficult to sell, with a much smaller audience. I guess a distant reason is that I can see I own a true GT car, not the prestigious truly important to me.

SapphireBlue981S

turbo 2.5L 4 cylinder vs glorious 4.0L flat six
no other reasons needed

adsingl

I'm going to a GT4; bought the 2019 GTS last year because it looked like I'd never get an allocation. I'll probably lose 10k easily in depreciation unless I get lucky, the 2.5s do appear to be holding up a little better this spring.
With the mild APR tune, the car is likely faster in a straight line than a GT4, crazy fun; a little more peaky than stock on track so you have to get used to the gear you're in on slower corners; I looped the car at Road Atlanta last summer coming out of 10 when it spooled to quickly in 2nd.
For me, the GT4 is a bucket list thing as I near retirement, and ... as other suggest, the GT4 won't depreciate like the GTS is.
Both cars for me are maybe 10 miles a week to meet friends, most real miles are very spirited weekend runs, track days, and he most miles are probably to and from tracks.
I may do the alignment pieces for the GT4, 2nd set of wheels, but previous toy is an E46M3, stepped headers, Supersrpint muffler, CAI, front BBK and MCS with 2 way remotes.
But honestly, even if I let pressure out of the cannisters and go to very low rebound, fun runs to my hometown 100 miles away - not enjoyable. So very doubtful I'll touch the dampers on the GT4.
To me, the technology on the GTS and GT4 magnetic dampers is near perfect. Not the ultimate track setup, but nearly no roll in sport+, nearly never bottoms out on the street in normal mode for bad roads.
As another posted, I need to get back to using a coach, I was pretty good in the M3, knew exactly what it was going to do and first several events were BMWCCA with a coach.
I'm nowhere near the capabilities of the GTS; certainly quicker than the M3, but *I* am not as good in the car yet.

ADS

kmh0277

Did you look at GT4 prices because they've gotten a little crazy. Hopefully you have an allocation. $140k for a CPO GT4 with minimal spec and sofas seems to be the new norm.