facelvega

For me, heel/toe was really difficult in Porsche street cars, because the brake pedal was so high. I believe that Porsche did this so that incompetent drivers would be safer, not hitting gas instead of brake, or along with brake. My track cars are 987/997 generation, and I adjusted the brake pedal height and found it made a huge difference for me. I put the write-up in another thread, so it would be easy to find. I can see from the parts catalog that 991 uses different parts, but may have the same adjustability possible. It is **officially** not adjustable on the earlier cars or on 991/992, but if the same design concepts are used, it can be adjusted.

How to Adjust Brake Pedal Height

With the height correct, it is easy to just roll your foot to the right and catch the gas with the side of your foot.

lgusto

I never cease to be amazed at the level of expertise and quality of Rennlist members. I very much appreciate the time everyone has put into these posts.

My takeaway thus far from all the replies boils down to:

1. There is no substitute for track time - heel/toe on the track is very different from on the street
2. Practice heel/toe on the street regardless to develop basic technique and muscle memory, often enough that your brain/foot connection automatically kicks in when slowing the car
3. 100% emphasis on braking, and another 20% on the downshift
4. Any change to the components involved in slowing the car (pads, rotors, calipers, lines, fluid, tires, etc.) may require adjustment to the heel/toe movement
5. There are several options for foot movement including A) rolling the foot with a small amount of rotation to press the throttle with the side of the foot, and B) a more pronounced rotation to actually press the throttle with the heel
6. For many drivers patience and persistence, over months or years, is needed to get it right

How will I know when I get it right? For me it will be a perfectly linear deceleration curve while braking with a heel/toe downshift.

raspritz

I'm a bit surprised the key fact has only been indirectly addressed here. I gather that your 2014 911 C2 with 7-speed manual transmission is a street car. Correct? Well, the assertion that all Porsche's are racecars is marketing nonsense. Street Porsches (and most ex-street Porsches that are raced) are simply not properly set up for heel-toe shifting. Strap yourself into any real purpose-built racecar and you will understand immediately. Next time you go to a track day, ask one of the Formula Ford drivers if you can please sit in their car; I'm sure they'll be happy to oblige. In a well set-up racecar the pedals are physically smaller than in a street car, much lower, and are usually closer together. That is true for my Porsche racecar and my three Formula racecars. Accordingly, the pedals have much less travel, and it is easy to drive anchoring your right heel, slightly rotating that foot onto the brake or gas as needed, and blipping the gas by rolling onto the right side of your right foot. Easy-peasy. Of course, in a Formula racecar the steering column goes between your legs, so forget about left-foot braking.

LuigiVampa

I would agree in the beginning, but once you become proficient, it is not such a big deal.

On my Gen1 Cayman I had a "wing" on the gas pedal to help heel toe when I first started racing.

My professional coach hated it and kept telling me to get rid of it. After a practice session I come into pits and he tells me to look at my feet. He took it off and I never knew the difference. It was like removing training wheels.

stownsen914

Couple thoughts:
1. I see references to it above, but there are a couple very different ways to execute "heel and toe." The first way is the side roll style where the ball of your foot is on the brake, and you roll your foot to the side to blip the gas pedal. I think this may be the more common. The second method (which I personally prefer) is to have the ball of your foot on the brake, angle your foot so your heel is on the throttle pedal, and use your heel to blip. The pedal wings some use are more helpful for the first method. Which method your choose depends on a few things including size of your feet, configuration and spacing of the pedals, and personal preference.
2. When students ask about heel and toe, I spend a couple minutes describing its advantages and how to do it, and then suggest that they practice it driving on the street. I feel that the skill is unnatural enough that trying to learn it on the track is inefficient. It's also an easy skill to learn while driving on the street if you have a manual shift car.

m3bs

I’ve been doing H&T for over 30 years. My data says I’m actually doing it better than I thought I was as far as maintaining brake pressure. That said, it took me all of about three laps in a “modern” car with auto rev matching to make me a believer. I’m spoiled now….

Zhao

Ya, my GT4 ruined me. Can I heel and toe well enough? ya, probably. Can I nail a perfect heel and toe.... in theory it could happen. But could I do it twice in a row, or 100 times a session? no.

The GT4 nails it every time. As much as I dislike aids of any sort, I keep that one on now on the track, but still keep it off on the street.

ProCoach

I did that with my 2021 Mach 1 client yesterday. Got him braking MUCH closer to the limits of the car, doubling his decel rate, through exercises and him building confidence.

Noticed on the data he was catching the throttle when pushing hard on the brakes, gave him a few exciting moments from 150>50 at the two big brake zones here at VIR.

Turns out he had had his shop put on one of those damned "wings" on the throttle pedal. Took it off and all was now well...

lgusto

It seems this discussion is getting pretty car specific so I'll add my experience with the 911.1 C2, stock pedals, no wings or extensions. Blipping the throttle is pretty easy with soft to moderate brake pressure by using the side of the foot. But using the same foot position during heavy braking causes the brake pedal to be so low that you catch the throttle on the way down and wind up with the same "exciting moments from 150>50" mentioned in an earlier post. That's caused me to plant my foot more squarely on the brake and use a true "heel and toe" movement on heavy braking like Turn 7 at Sebring.

Another earlier post recommended sticking with the same motion for all braking to reinforce muscle memory. So yesterday I tried using my "heavy" motion on soft to moderate braking situations and, for me, it's impossible. The brake pedal sits too high to get my heel anywhere near the throttle. Perhaps I'm not limber enough to turn my foot the 60-80 degrees that would be necessary. For now, I'll stick with having two heel/two movements and just try to get better at consistent brake pressure throughout the brake zone (which was the core question in my original post).

ProCoach

Good plan.

R717

To the point Raspritz was making, consider adding a heel stop. It was one of the fist things I put in my aircooled race car and it was a gamechanger in terms of consistency maintaining brake pressure while h&t. I'm able to anchor my heel and use my whole leg to roll my foot over to blip the throttle. I fabbed it with a couple bolts and some angle aluminum. You may have to get creative mounting one on a street car with top hung pedals if you don't want to drill holes.

Montaver

https://blayze.io/blog/car-racing/he...e-downshifting

This is a pretty good recent article from a racing driver/coach. Explains well why you want to do it later in the braking zone and the benefits of always having your full forefoot on the brake pedal. I had no auto blip on my GT4 at WGI last week as I changed suspension and my electronic defeat wasn't in yet. It really adds to the cockpit workload so kudos to you for persevering as its a genuinely difficult skill and requires good coordination. It takes time to get the 'muscle memory' for the throttle application, but once you do it will happen subconsciously and all your brain cycles can be focused on braking and positioning the car. Until you try it in a different car with a different throttle sensitivity and your back a few steps

Montaver

Also on the subject of heel toe I enjoyed this video of Mark Webber, so precise on all the inputs

raspritz

Inspired by this thread, today I borrowed my wife's bone-stock Cayman GTS, took it out, and tried to heel-toe. It can't be done. Period. End of discussion.

lgusto

Ha! Thank you for making me feel better about my struggles.