mglobe

In theory…

Olemiss540

I have plenty of experience with slow drivers in fast cars but the bulk majority are courteous and fine to drive alongside even in advanced sessions. Me thinks this issue is more about arrogance than ignorance based on my few interactions with this particular subgroup of slow drivers.

They don't deserve to be reclassed, they deserve to be booted or blacklisted.

winders

Well, if we had more people than spots to fill in groups and race grids, I might agree with you. We don't...so we should be doing a better job of identifying and educating people that are a problem or are becoming a problem.

Olemiss540

I tend to think those handful of egos have a much larger negative impact to attendance than it's worth to placate them.

winders

Who said anything about placating them? Part of the education process is discipline. If you refuse to learn and play by the rules after a problem has been identified, then you get penalized. That could be being banned for a while or permanently. The idea that everyone that is being a dick on track is doing so on purpose is flawed.

Olemiss540

I agree. Don't boot the people being dicks on accident.

Zhao

Agreed. Don't ban. Instead, punish, humiliate, sanction, whatever, and if that doesn't correct it, up the ante, and if that doesn't do it, then talk about banning. I've seen a guy get a year suspension for causing a bad wreck and came back and played very nice from then on; he then almost single handedly organized spec miata and promoted it to the largest class in a couple years. I've seen people driving like dillholes invited to not come back for awhile if they didn't admit their driving was a problem and correct it and that guy had attitude issues so exploded claiming a witch hunt and never came back. There should be punishment to discourage bad behaviour but if there is a chance of improvement it need not be club career ending or follow them like a child molester conviction.

But I'm really not sure what to say about the old boys club though that gets away with whatever they want... because that is a real problem and the organizers don't treat them the same. They get away with way too much and it hurts the new guys interest in sticking around. And honestly it hurts experienced guys from sticking around too. I was literally chatting with a new sprint racer today who started after I stopped, and he was talking about a guy he was having a problem with being a menace on the track, and it was literally a guy I had a problem with myself (rammed me full out on a straightaway after he realized he sucked at driving) and he was pretty discouraged because n oone wanted to do anything about it.

Punishment needs to be done equally to all people regardless if it's the chief organizers kid, or that guy with missing teeth who 'everyone hates' because he came from oval track.

Veloce Raptor

That line in Cool Hand Luke continues to be proven true daily: Some men you just can't reach...

winders

Sure...but all men are worthy of a chance.

Veloce Raptor

Agreed

MechanicalEng

I drive a bone stock BIG Miata and get similar treatment, see what happens when both Miatas and Big Miatas get stuck behind a Tuned high HP M3 on R7s, this is an advanced group (note headlight flashing)
Starts at minute 12:20

gbuff

dgrobs

I see multiple problems in this video, yes, the BMW, but there was a train for almost a full lap starting at that 12:20 mark, and it wasn't a 2 or 3 car train.

That bimmer also got really loose braking into the octopus, nice heads up driving on your part to anticipate that he wasn't in full control of the car.

Veloce Raptor

What a schitt show

Zhao

I see way more problems than that one car. You have the yellow car at the front holding up traffic, then you have a yahoo right behind him pacing the yellow car content to never pass him ever. That means a double pass for anyone catching up now and proper edicate is the car behind the leader passes first so it just makes a mess. Then you have your white m3 which is it's own problem, and then you have a bunch of other people seemingly also content to just sit in traffic and literally no one is putting any pressure on anyone to get let by so Mr yellow car probably can't even really be blamed as he probably thinks he's not holding anyone up as usually there is a big gap. Your m3 can't really be blamed because he is often in a position where he's being held up as well waiting for his turn to pass. There are many cars that share the blame there.

You need a new run group, that one sucks.

But you could have done far more to initiate a point by. Notice how the black vette has no problem getting a point by? at 14:55 you could have gone right and probably got yourself a point by also, but you chose to stay left and ride the m3's bumper. You also could have been driving showing you wanted to pass. Drop your car to the inside on corner entry to simulate a passing attempt, hug their bumper around the corner, combine the 2, charge up on them hard (not all passive like you were doing where you gradually caught them). Notice how he does let you by with a little bit of pressure?