Porsche's performance @Lemans 2023 venting..
06-12-2023, 11:09 PM
#31
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i dont think any feels they are not trying, but porsche has had the most testing out of any manufacturer and they still performed poorly.
06-12-2023, 11:13 PM
#32
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Besides Porsches lackluster results, i want to know what jackass chose lebron as the starter. With all the amazing drivers out there and he waves the flag at the 100th running 🤦♂️🤪
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06-12-2023, 11:50 PM
#33
Testing the car is a terrible way to find which sensor will break, when you need very high reliability.
The electrical components destined for space travel are qualified using a gauntlet of brutal survival tests. After that they are batch tested with even more brutal tests. You can only use parts from a particular batch if that batch does not have too many failures. And the shelf life matters.
These parts can be procured for only a couple k$ each. Then you want to use two (redundant), in case one fails.
It's a well known fact how to reduce the failure rate 10x , even 100x. Your choice what you want to drive on. We will soon send people to Mars and I worry much that not every manufacturer are really committed to reducing failures. If you simply plug in an auto grade part, you have just seen the possible outcome.
The electrical components destined for space travel are qualified using a gauntlet of brutal survival tests. After that they are batch tested with even more brutal tests. You can only use parts from a particular batch if that batch does not have too many failures. And the shelf life matters.
These parts can be procured for only a couple k$ each. Then you want to use two (redundant), in case one fails.
It's a well known fact how to reduce the failure rate 10x , even 100x. Your choice what you want to drive on. We will soon send people to Mars and I worry much that not every manufacturer are really committed to reducing failures. If you simply plug in an auto grade part, you have just seen the possible outcome.
06-12-2023, 11:58 PM
#34
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Testing the car is a terrible way to find which sensor will break, when you need very high reliability.
The electrical components destined for space travel are qualified using a gauntlet of brutal survival tests. After that they are batch tested with even more brutal tests. You can only use parts from a particular batch if that batch does not have too many failures. And the shelf life matters.
These parts can be procured for only a couple k$ each. Then you want to use two (redundant), in case one fails.
It's a well known fact how to reduce the failure rate 10x , even 100x. Your choice what you want to drive on. We will soon send people to Mars and I worry much that not every manufacturer are really committed to reducing failures. If you simply plug in an auto grade part, you have just seen the possible outcome.
The electrical components destined for space travel are qualified using a gauntlet of brutal survival tests. After that they are batch tested with even more brutal tests. You can only use parts from a particular batch if that batch does not have too many failures. And the shelf life matters.
These parts can be procured for only a couple k$ each. Then you want to use two (redundant), in case one fails.
It's a well known fact how to reduce the failure rate 10x , even 100x. Your choice what you want to drive on. We will soon send people to Mars and I worry much that not every manufacturer are really committed to reducing failures. If you simply plug in an auto grade part, you have just seen the possible outcome.
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Mr.Valero (06-14-2023)
06-13-2023, 12:12 AM
#36
That's a fact that cars often (not always) experience higher loading than aircraft. We first heard that in Carroll Smith's 'cheat to win' series.
My comments above are not strictly related to aircraft however. I recall that the military rates the rotary wing environment higher than fixed wing. The highest vibe environment in the MIL HDBK 217 as I recall is reserved for projectiles. Not sure your car is going beat that unless you go into a wall at Mach 2.
Component level testing is done on a vibration table. The procedure is to set that table to a higher g level than the part could ever experience in use. It's always the same, land, sea, or air. Also the same for down-hole electronics (drill rig).
My comments above are not strictly related to aircraft however. I recall that the military rates the rotary wing environment higher than fixed wing. The highest vibe environment in the MIL HDBK 217 as I recall is reserved for projectiles. Not sure your car is going beat that unless you go into a wall at Mach 2.
Component level testing is done on a vibration table. The procedure is to set that table to a higher g level than the part could ever experience in use. It's always the same, land, sea, or air. Also the same for down-hole electronics (drill rig).
Last edited by Mike Billings; 06-13-2023 at 12:36 AM.
06-13-2023, 07:58 AM
#38
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That's a fact that cars often (not always) experience higher loading than aircraft. We first heard that in Carroll Smith's 'cheat to win' series.
My comments above are not strictly related to aircraft however. I recall that the military rates the rotary wing environment higher than fixed wing. The highest vibe environment in the MIL HDBK 217 as I recall is reserved for projectiles. Not sure your car is going beat that unless you go into a wall at Mach 2.
Component level testing is done on a vibration table. The procedure is to set that table to a higher g level than the part could ever experience in use. It's always the same, land, sea, or air. Also the same for down-hole electronics (drill rig).
My comments above are not strictly related to aircraft however. I recall that the military rates the rotary wing environment higher than fixed wing. The highest vibe environment in the MIL HDBK 217 as I recall is reserved for projectiles. Not sure your car is going beat that unless you go into a wall at Mach 2.
Component level testing is done on a vibration table. The procedure is to set that table to a higher g level than the part could ever experience in use. It's always the same, land, sea, or air. Also the same for down-hole electronics (drill rig).
Now when Toyota GR had a torque sensor fail, it was a sensor mandated by IMSA/WEC and that was out of their hands.
06-13-2023, 08:02 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by ajcjr
Besides Porsches lackluster results, i want to know what jackass chose lebron as the starter. With all the amazing drivers out there and he waves the flag at the 100th running 🤦♂️🤪
06-13-2023, 09:37 AM
#41
You realize that Porsche did over 15,000 miles of testing including 36 hours straight at Sebring? I'm sure the car went to the shaker and everything else. This car is heavily developed and prepared. https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/p...st-at-sebring/
Now when Toyota GR had a torque sensor fail, it was a sensor mandated by IMSA/WEC and that was out of their hands.
Now when Toyota GR had a torque sensor fail, it was a sensor mandated by IMSA/WEC and that was out of their hands.
06-13-2023, 10:49 AM
#42
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I am as disappointed as anyone with the 963's result to this point. But can we give this whole "testing expert" stuff a break?
Porsche has won Le Mans 19 times.They know better than anyone how to test the car and everything that is part of it. This current car and powertrian is simply giving them some headaches. They will figure it out.
Porsche has won Le Mans 19 times.They know better than anyone how to test the car and everything that is part of it. This current car and powertrian is simply giving them some headaches. They will figure it out.
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06-13-2023, 11:33 AM
#43
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It’s important to realize that there are SO many factors that go into the final results of a race like this, that long.
The most telling thing I saw written in post analysis was that to win, you have to have a performance margin over the rest of the field and manage the gap back.
With the way endurance racing has turned into along-distance sprint race, with most of the HyperCars turning 3:30-3:31 or better ALL race, that challenge has risen.
But the sport and the BOP is healthy, no matter what each team spox says. If you do an analysis of the lap times throughout the event, and the fastest laps, the parity is remarkable.
Just like in most racing, when it’s this intense, it’s about avoiding errors. Regulations, mechanical failure and driver induced, they all cost.
The most telling thing I saw written in post analysis was that to win, you have to have a performance margin over the rest of the field and manage the gap back.
With the way endurance racing has turned into along-distance sprint race, with most of the HyperCars turning 3:30-3:31 or better ALL race, that challenge has risen.
But the sport and the BOP is healthy, no matter what each team spox says. If you do an analysis of the lap times throughout the event, and the fastest laps, the parity is remarkable.
Just like in most racing, when it’s this intense, it’s about avoiding errors. Regulations, mechanical failure and driver induced, they all cost.
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ajcjr (06-13-2023)
06-13-2023, 05:24 PM
#44
Last weekend looked a lot like 2014 for Porsche. Lots of fanfare about the return, big disappointment. Full credit to Ferrari - I am wondering if building their own car and using their F1 engineers helped?
Congrats to team Rexy for the podium. Also, the Iron Dames had a great run - too bad they are going with Lambo next year.
I expect there will be some uncomfortable meetings at Porsche in the next couple of weeks. Heads will roll over the hypercar results. I bet the same thing happened after 2014 LMP. But - they hit it out of the park in 2015 - and I have a feeling we will see the same thing in 2024.
Plus, the new GT car should help.
Interesting to see some of the great results from former Porsche LMP drivers - Bamber, Hartley, Jami, Dumas. Maybe Porsche needs to entice some of them back to the fold for hypercar. Absolutely nothing against Estre et al - they are legends. And, I obviously don't understand all of the moving parts involved in driver contracts and the shift to private only GT campaigns - but maybe the move from GT to hypercar is not easy?
Congrats to team Rexy for the podium. Also, the Iron Dames had a great run - too bad they are going with Lambo next year.
I expect there will be some uncomfortable meetings at Porsche in the next couple of weeks. Heads will roll over the hypercar results. I bet the same thing happened after 2014 LMP. But - they hit it out of the park in 2015 - and I have a feeling we will see the same thing in 2024.
Plus, the new GT car should help.
Interesting to see some of the great results from former Porsche LMP drivers - Bamber, Hartley, Jami, Dumas. Maybe Porsche needs to entice some of them back to the fold for hypercar. Absolutely nothing against Estre et al - they are legends. And, I obviously don't understand all of the moving parts involved in driver contracts and the shift to private only GT campaigns - but maybe the move from GT to hypercar is not easy?