Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Preparing for more power - advice?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-23-2024, 10:54 AM
  #76  
steveP911
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
steveP911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 765
Received 423 Likes on 218 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by winders
Well, let's be fair here...which you have not been! You said you were gaining about 30 HP. Basically going from 350HP to 380HP. That's not what happened here. You went from ~350HP at the crank to ~407 HP at the wheels. If we assume 15% drive train losses, you went from ~298 HP to ~407 HP. That's almost 110 HP. That is a a 36% increase in power. That is 4 times what you said it would be. Hell yes you will feel that. Hell yes that will change everything.

I would have answered the question completely differently given the actual facts. So don't give me a snippy "IMHO" here...

And, if the results are from a SuperFlow engine dyno, 57 HP is still noticeable....not as much as 110 HP...but it makes a difference.
Hmm. I certainly don't think I have been "unfair". I am confused by that. I believe that all of the information I have stated here and in my Rebuild thread was factual.

The 997.1S is rated at 355hp at the crank. Based on a wheel dyno I had done a year or two after I bought the car, where it measured 322hp at the wheels, I estimated the crank hp to be around 380hp (15% loss). I attributed the "gain" to Porsche conservatism, alternate dyno types/conditions, and the PO's install of a full AWE exhaust system. The graph shown in the Slakker image is from an engine dyno. It is not RWHP. Sorry if that misled you. So, the engine power gain was around 27hp (7%). Again, I did not "feel" that as much as I did the ability to accelerate from lower rpm's (out of turns) due to the higher torque band. There are posts earlier in my Rebuild thread that do a better job of showing the difference between the new torque profile and the stock one. It seems substantial to me.

I don't understand how you interpret an In My Humble Opinion reference as snippy. Sorry if anything misled or annoyed you. Certainly not my intent.

Steve
Old 04-23-2024, 11:00 AM
  #77  
steveP911
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
steveP911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 765
Received 423 Likes on 218 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by GC996
Yeah, changes create changes. Just the way it is.

Rebuilt engine with more overall power especially on the lower end of the band certainly means adjustments on how you use the throttle, brakes, brake capacity requirements, etc will result. I was impressed on one of your posts about shaving off 6 seconds a lap at VIR. Huge. Sounds like you are having a blast getting to know the capabilities of your new engine and the resulting characteristics of your car.

Sure seems to me that it would be a hell of alot of fun getting to know the new package. Looking forward to hearing more about your observations, adjustments and enhancements you make as the season progresses.
Thanks GC.

I think I am still not taking full advantage of the engine performance gains, but as you might agree, that is probably the safest approach for a White group driver. And I don't have the T of a 25-year-old anymore.... Next event is WGI where I actually feel a little more comfortable given the track camber and grip and smoothness. Yes, the blue bushes are close but I have not been overly intimidated by them yet.

For the 6 second improvement at VIR, I might give two seconds to the engine and four seconds to (1) the improved "take all the curbing" line shown to me by an instructor, and (2) staying off the brakes in the Roller Coaster (taught in one of the White classes).

I appreciate your positive commentary.

Cheers.
The following users liked this post:
GC996 (04-23-2024)
Old 04-23-2024, 11:19 AM
  #78  
steveP911
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
steveP911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 765
Received 423 Likes on 218 Posts
Default

Thank you, Peter. Always very insightful comments. I am impressed that you can reach both racers and relative newbies like me. That's a skill.

Originally Posted by ProCoach
Yes, approach speed does make a difference, but the fundamentals are still the same.

If you're tickling the ABS initially, then you're really too brutal with the initial application AND the car is unstable when you hit it too quickly and hard. Too binary with the middle pedal.
You are spot on - I think I did this initially and then corrected away from it.

If you tickle the ABS at the end, close to and past initial steering at turn-in, you've left just about the right amount of speed left at the end of the straight line portion of the brake zone.
I am pleased to say I think I progressed towards this. Just up to the point where I could carry brake, with the car being stable, almost all the way to a proper-ish apex.

You are correct in that the initial slope down is significant and could see it up close, but still nothing like the approach to Turn 1 at the Glen. More like the steady downhill into Turn 1 at Summit.
Yes, I will test that in a few weeks at WGI. But I have not sensed much of a downhill into Summit T1. Is it that subtle, or did you mean T5?

What is hard to see from the car is that it goes UP from marker 2 to the arrow, THEN levels out, then goes down from crossing centerline to apex approach all the way to an area just before the second inside curb. It's why people that miss the apex or early pick up a big push and don't know why...
Yes, a complex turn from start to finish. I did appreciate your study of its elevation aspects in the TrackWalk video.

The downward slope starts after 6 (the initial mark) and stops at marker 2, allowing full throttle up to the marker you select. Then, execute an exponential, quick squeeze on the brake, followed by a harder push once the nose is down and loaded.
So, are you saying that you do not start the exponential rise until you are nearing the bottom of the decline? I know you don't like coasting but I have to admit I did some of that from B6 to B3.

The squirrely behavior at the back of the car is a result of too quick a weight transfer FROM AN UNLADEN STATE.
10-4. That is a continuing goal for me to work towards. It may also have been somewhat due to my loosening coilovers, which are currently being rebuilt. I have been chasing this issue for a while and I hope this resolves the car part of the problem (the rest is me, of course).

So, what we've seen is that the drivers that DO keep their foot down to the brake point is that the car is actually progressing from a better damped state (thrust positive acceleration) to another well damped (hard braking) state. It's the in-between that feels funny!

It would be wonderful to see the differences in vMax between the pre-mod state and post-mod, but I can assure you that the physics doesn't know the difference. There are best executions of fundamental skills that can solve all (or most all) of these "comfort" issues. And allow you to go faster with less risk.
I will see if I can pull those out of my data sets.

Thanks for posting your impressions!
Thank you kindly!
The following users liked this post:
ProCoach (04-23-2024)
Old 04-23-2024, 11:46 AM
  #79  
ProCoach
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
 
ProCoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durham, NC and Virginia International Raceway
Posts: 18,724
Received 2,886 Likes on 1,694 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by steveP911
Thank you, Peter. Always very insightful comments. I am impressed that you can reach both racers and relative newbies like me. That's a skill.

Thank you kindly!
My pleasure! It’s wonderful to see you on the path of constant improvement!

On the exponential rise, as hard as it is to do it, it has to happen quickly (in a third or a quarter distance between markers).

The idea is NOT to coast any significant time between the quick, instant release of wide open throttle to the beginning of maximum brake pressure and have that maximum pressure occur earlier, rather than later, in the brakes zone (number one cause of ABS actuation, or the “oh $#!t” moment).

At 135 mph, I am covering between 19 and 24 feet between the throttle coming off and the brake pressure beginning to build. And I am a RFB.

Within 0.35-0.7 seconds, I am at maximum pressure.

I think in a softer sprung, heavier street car, that’s not a realistic goal, but less than double that might be. The CORE Autosport factory 911 GT/LM was doing 160 or so and were making those figures, so there’s that.

The most telling part of your post though is the idea that you observed that you were neither on throttle up to the brake point (accelerate-to point) or really on the brakes decisively because you were concerned about the car’s potential response. Sounds like a good thing to look at those coil overs.

There’s a lot more, including the best procedure to find a brake point safely and without risk, while practicing the best execution of fundamental skills, but we would need some time together at the track to do that.

Congrats! Sounds fun!
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway























Last edited by ProCoach; 04-23-2024 at 11:47 AM.
The following users liked this post:
steveP911 (04-23-2024)



Quick Reply: Preparing for more power - advice?



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 02:20 AM.