dgrobs

Numerous times for that matter.
If it was corner worker failure, let’s hear that.
If the safety corner lights failed, let’s hear that.
If they didn’t, then let’s hear that.
If it was red mist on the part of the collateral damagers, then let’s hear that.
Whatever it was, let’s hear about it and learn from it.
How do you not put safety first in this game? Answer, you don’t.
To say there is nothing to hear here (see what I did there?) you are just taunting history to repeat itself and this will happen again and again.
Fantastic post spritz…

ldamelio

So you were there and have analyzed detailed kinematic data and video ? Thinking the way you are (implicit assumption it's only human error, you probably wouldn't have done the same, some 'fortune' was involved) may make you feel better when you're on the track. I prefer data and process oriented thinking. S**t may still happen but a process oriented thought process is better able to foresee and prevent bad things.

ProCoach

Good Lord, Bruce. One of the "collateral damagers" was injured, for goodness sake.

There are are more appropriate venues and MUCH more appropriate people who are doing the forensic analysis than those in a public forum like Rennlist.

As much to be learned by the serious incident at VIR, and yet not a peep of righteous indignation on that.

Just because the peanut gallery doesn't get instantly satiated by all the gory details doesn't mean there isn't a hell of a lot of study going on by folks with far more data and information than we will ever have.

I'm apologize for letting off steam this way, but it's not simple, and it's none of most people's business. I've been at the track over the last forty years for too many incidents resulting in serious injury or death, but it's still safer than the drive to or from the track, considering the million-passenger miles traveled by all participants, AFAIK.

I am sure good information and direction, if it can help others, will come out of the forensic analysis of the incidents at both tracks last weekend. Pax.

LuigiVampa

I want to be clear here, because the last thing I want to do is bring controversy to the memory of a racer who just died, or the other driver who was injured.

I ALWAYS think it is a good idea to learn from mistakes - in racing and in life. I'm not discounting all the good thoughts people have expressed along those lines.

My comments that "there is nothing to learn" is predicated on the fact that whenever you leave a car on a hot track there is a risk. If you black flag the session, and pull the car, there is no risk. Someone made the decision that the car was in a safe place and that was obviously an awful mistake.

In my opinion it is a binary mistake - you either pull the car or not. If the car had been pulled this thread would not exist.

ProCoach

Speculation, counsel.

ProCoach

Certainly there is something to be learned from root cause analysis. I think of medication errors and other medical incidents where the Swiss cheese effect (an unfortunate formation, collection and intersection of errors, none of which would be lethal on their own, line up) occurs.

We talk all the time at the track doing incident forensics of identifying the beginnings of a cascade of failures that finally accumulate enough to cause property damage. Sometimes this results in serious injury or death…without facts and intimate knowledge of all the parties present, it’s just speculation, right now.

LuigiVampa

It is wishful speculation. Absolutely.

I've seen friends have awful accidents at the track and when I get out of the car my hands are shaking. I've brought clothes to a friend at the hospital in WGI after a huge crash. Sometimes in the moment I question what I am doing.

It is easy to quantify my comments as my usual bluster which I am often guilty of. That is not where I am speaking from. I didn't know Mark but this is upsetting to me because I feel a connection with anyone who puts on a helmet.

I'll say no more on this subject other to hope that we do learn something from this tragedy.

ProCoach

I am with you, man…

dgrobs

I don’t even know how to respond to this post, except to say that you are WAY OFF BASE.
Righteous indignation? What the F are you talking about?
And then you throw Chucks incident in my face?
How dare you!! Is that really who you are? Man did I have you pegged wrong. Live and learn I guess.
Im done here too.

lgusto

Social media, texts, emails, etc. are difficult mediums because it's so easy for experienced, intelligent and considerate senders to come across poorly. I think this thread exemplifies that concept.

I get that there is a time and place for these discussions. I can only surmise from some of the visceral responses that this is neither the time nor the place. Lesson learned, apologies to those I've upset.

Cemoto

.

Mark was a great guy. It will take me some time before I delete his contact informaion from the phone.

.

911Königin

steveP911

I am leery of making any comments in this slightly testy thread, but the commentary does raise a question that I have had for a bit. In virtually all of the DE events I have been in so far, I cannot recall one without some kind of incident. My question is, why are they not discussed at some level in later class sessions? I realize that there may be liability ramifications and maybe even personal sensitivity concerns on the part of the organization or track facility, but I would really like to know as factually as possible what happened in these incidents so I can be more aware of how to avoid them. I am not asking the question defiantly, but earnestly because it is an area of Driver Education that I feel comes up a bit short. Great instruction about improving skill and safety, but not enough real-world examples/lessons on specifically what can cause bad things to happen. Maybe I am not being realistic, but I am willing to ask the question here since I am committed to improving my safety (not just for me) every year.

My condolences to the family.

Thanks.

Gary R.

Nothing to do with this horrific incident, but to save you what would be an assuredly contentious driver's meeting.. Oil spill, Coolant spill, Blowout, Mechanical break, Redmist, bad judgement.. and the big one, ego, otherwise known as driving far beyond one's ability to control the car. Always a combination of these...

Nowanker

Despite NASA Norcal's stunningly bad HPDE safety record, there was a download meeting after every session.
If you had any kind of incident, we all discussed it at length.

I haven't run with them for a few years now, so I don't know if that's still the policy.
Also don't know their current safety stats. Maybe they stopped crashing cars.
Well, it could have happened....

My condolences to the racer's family.
As to the cause... Isn't the expression "It's never just ONE thing"?