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Most of the conditions identified that are treated as exceptions fall on the self reporting section of the medical forms. Yes, if you rely on self reporting then you should really trust the answers but there are some issues that applicants may not know about including vision issues. Peripheral vision can decrease with age but people may not be aware of it. PCA racers also fit closer to the demographic of HSR then F1 so it seems appropriate that age related conditions are taken into account. It's a fine line to walk between making it easy and fair while trying to ensure everyones safety to the extent possible. I really hope that all parties involved can see this as a positive dialog towards tweaking that line.
Yes, but what good is knowing if someone has a vision issue if it's not going to be checked and enforced before they go on track? If you have a vision issue that requires corrective glasses or contacts, when does it get verified that you're actually wearing them when you go out on track? I've never seen it. The reality is PCA is just relying on personal recognizance and at that stage I'd ask what's the point?
Originally Posted by coryf
Consistency with 13/13 rulings and technical issues were discussed for sure.
On the technical side, it was suggested to rely more heavily on the individual class advocates which would ideally be more familiar with the rules/specs of those cars in their particular group.
All aspects of the 13/13 rule were heavily discussed.
I don't think it requires much discussion. Just enforce the existing rules consistently. And I'm not talking about a technical discussion between stewards and racers regarding whether a driver did or didn't break the rules. I'm talking about presenting video evidence of things like clear yellow flag infractions and having an official tell you they're not going to be bothered changing the results.
I don't think it requires much discussion. Just enforce the existing rules consistently. And I'm not talking about a technical discussion between stewards and racers regarding whether a driver did or didn't break the rules. I'm talking about presenting video evidence of things like clear yellow flag infractions and having an official tell you they're not going to be bothered changing the results.
+1,000,000
It's not rocket science. The 13/13 Rule has been in existence since 1988 and steadily diluted since then.
Unlike pro racing where there is frequent assessment of "shared responsibility, in Club racing, there HAS to be responsibility and accountability.
Otherwise, some casual racing driver's grasp does not equal their reach. They just discount the deterrent aspect and never assume responsibility.
They cease making the risk/benefit calculation in setting up passes or weighing their behavior on-track.
This is where we are...
__________________ -Peter Krause www.peterkrause.net www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
One of the most common causes of car to car contact is, imo, the assumption that just because someone has caught the driver ahead of them, they can/will immediately get by. Setting up the pass - understanding where you're faster and how you can time that advantage ...
I don't think it requires much discussion. Just enforce the existing rules consistently. And I'm not talking about a technical discussion between stewards and racers regarding whether a driver did or didn't break the rules. I'm talking about presenting video evidence of things like clear yellow flag infractions and having an official tell you they're not going to be bothered changing the results.
It is a good sign that PCA is waking up and acknowledging that there is a problem. I just hope that as they move towards fixing these problems they reach out to us members to ask us our opinions instead of just deciding what is best for us.
Instead of being able to sign up for a PCA race, I just added my #30 RSR to the 117 car count for an upcoming SVRA event at Laguna Seca May 2-5. Add in Trans Am and IGT, so another 40-50 cars will be there.
I first joined the PCA in 1967, I enjoy the club and hope they can sort out their club racing challenges. PCA members interested in racing deserve a well run organization.
( Laguna Seca May 12, 1974, IMSA's first event there, also my first race in the '74, RSR.)
)
Instead of being able to sign up for a PCA race, I just added my #30 RSR to the 117 car count for an upcoming SVRA event at Laguna Seca May 2-5. Add in Trans Am and IGT, so another 40-50 cars will be there.
I first joined the PCA in 1967, I enjoy the club and hope they can sort out their club racing challenges. PCA members interested in racing deserve a well run organization.
( Laguna Seca May 12, 1974, IMSA's first event there, also my first race in the '74, RSR.)
+1
I'm not allowed to race with PCA this coming weekend at LRP, but using that same PCA medical form I renewed both my IGT and SVRA race licenses, and will be racing with both organizations at LRP this coming Memorial Day weekend!
I'm not allowed to race with PCA this coming weekend at LRP, but using that same PCA medical form I renewed both my IGT and SVRA race licenses, and will be racing with both organizations at LRP this coming Memorial Day weekend!
Yay…
Voting with your feet and your wallet.
Good stuff LV
Updating the 13/13 rule
Updating the 13/13 appeal process
For consistent enforcement of 13/13 we must update the passing rule to a real rule. Like.every.other.racing.organization.on.the.planet.
We should know who is on 13. Not sure why it's a secret. If you are running for a championship and you don't know the guy you are competing with is on a 13 you might make decisions or spend time and money that you don't need to.
The appeals should be a formal odd number of people that examine the case and vote. This may need to be a varied group based on track knowledge. I've seen 13's given out by stews who clearly have never driven the track in question and had they they might have a completely different perspective.
For consistent enforcement of 13/13 we must update the passing rule to a real rule. Like.every.other.racing.organization.on.the.planet.
We should know who is on 13. Not sure why it's a secret. If you are running for a championship and you don't know the guy you are competing with is on a 13 you might make decisions or spend time and money that you don't need to.
The appeals should be a formal odd number of people that examine the case and vote. This may need to be a varied group based on track knowledge. I've seen 13's given out by stews who clearly have never driven the track in question and had they they might have a completely different perspective.
+1 Agree with all above.
And no more secret list of racers to be watched.
PCA CR would benefit from a lot more openness and transparency. No more back door dealings. No more secrecy around incidents and who earned the 13. And no more secrecy around the 13 appeal process. Heck, publishing the outcomes of incident investigations could be a learning experience for everyone.
“Here’s what happened, here’s the ruling and here’s the punishment. Don’t do this. Done.”
It would be fantastic if that happened! As I said, in an earlier post, these things are relatively easily fixed, but there needs to be a desire to fix them, and not just continue with the old boy network/system that is in place.
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 04-18-2024 at 09:03 AM.
Before someone inevitably makes the argument that 13s are disclosed - on the Championship Standings pages, racers with a 13 are annotated with an asterisk - I think what everyone is asking for is something plainly and widely promulgated. That the Championship page hasn't yet been updated with results from any of this season's five races negates the idea that it's an effective way to communicate 13s - and Championship points, for that matter ...
After careful consideration, significant input from racers, shop owners, David Murry, and the national team we have decided the time is right to abolish the 13/13 rule. In its place the following will apply:
1. At-fault incidents will result in a 9-race probation with the retention of your national championship points for all races other than the one in which the incident occurred.
2. A second at-fault incident during the probationary period will result in a 6-month suspension from the program, after which the racer must apply to the race chair for reinstatement.
3. This program change is retroactive to the beginning of the 2024 season and anyone currently on a 13/13 probation or suspension.
PCA Club Racing has been collecting data for many years and that data helped guide the decision to change the 13/13 rule. We believe that our racers will continue to operate at a high level, with a relatively low incident rate while competing for the coveted PCA Club Racing National Championship.
After careful consideration, significant input from racers, shop owners, David Murry, and the national team we have decided the time is right to abolish the 13/13 rule. In its place the following will apply:
1. At-fault incidents will result in a 9-race probation with the retention of your national championship points for all races other than the one in which the incident occurred.
2. A second at-fault incident during the probationary period will result in a 6-month suspension from the program, after which the racer must apply to the race chair for reinstatement.
3. This program change is retroactive to the beginning of the 2024 season and anyone currently on a 13/13 probation or suspension.
PCA Club Racing has been collecting data for many years and that data helped guide the decision to change the 13/13 rule. We believe that our racers will continue to operate at a high level, with a relatively low incident rate while competing for the coveted PCA Club Racing National Championship.
So probation could go on for years if you only do a couple of events per year?
04-17-2024, 10:35 AM
