LuigiVampa

+1

Ten years ago the club race paddocks were full and sometimes, if you didn't register fast enough, you got put on a wait list. The car counts have been on a steady downward trend every year and there is a very real danger that some races could be cancelled. When the VIR race can't draw enough cars to be profitable there is a problem.

To summarize Jason's post - PCA is still acting like it's ten years ago and doesn't want to admit that they need to change.

To give Jason credit - he promotes the HELL out of 911CUP. We have a poster for every race, regularly get swag, our own 911CUP Cup championship, and a lot of social interaction both on and off the track. PCA should take notice.

ProCoach

Agree with LV’s post.

Working in most all the historic racing paddocks, IMSA, SRO, Porsche Sprint Series, WRL, GT3 Cup Series, IGT, SCCA, NASA, I have never seen so many people spending so much money as now. Over the last forty years, too. I can assure you that there is not inflationary pressure on any of the people that are attending these races. If there is, it’s the number per year that people do, not not doing it.

The bottom line is there are SO many places to race, people are able to pick and choose like never before. PCA Club Racing, as is SVRA, is not compelling to the core target audience.

Jason has done an extraordinary promotional job, I did the same thing with Sports 2000 in historic racing a long time ago in Historic’s, now we have at least ten, sometimes twenty or more coming out most events.

I just finished up with VDCA and BMWCCA Club Racing at VIR. 170 historic cars, more than a hundred BMW’s. $700 entry fee and got 90 minutes on Friday, 60 minutes on Saturday and 90 minutes on Sunday. Deal! LOTS of carnage in BMW Club (many yellow laps and shortened sessions), few in Historic’s.

Spoke to some Porsche and BMW guys running historics and they all said, I don’t want to risk my car in Club Racing. Something hearing more and more.

The racing, new and younger folks coming in, are all fine in some venues. Others? Not so much…

NTM585

Anecdotally as a younger person on here (26), I have multiple friends who want to get into DEs and racing but even entry level track cars are too expensive. It’s table stakes to spend thousands upon thousands on a car, trailer (for club racing), safety equipment, entry fees, etc.

Let’s not over complicate the issue here - if there was a cheap way to buy a car and go racing, numbers would be way up from now. Champcar, AER, WRL, lemons are all more attractive but even those price out anyone trying to save up for a first home.

Difool

How is SCCA doing?

quickboxster

There's a 3 day PCA DE running with POC club racing at Podium Club the end of April, last year's weekend seemed to go pretty well. A line of 30 odd spec boosters is pretty impressive and seemingly great incentive to a DE guy to look for the next level. If there was an active clinic, a sit down or even a 30 min Q&A that the POC drivers would be willing to participate in would be icing on the cake.

MSR Racer

This is exactly the reason in my case … cost factor reaches an inflection point where other series become just as attractive. Of course that was a very slippery slope!

NastyHabits

PCA has a terrific potential feeder system - but there's no real connection/path between DE and Club Racing. In my opinion, there should be an advanced DE at EVERY race - and we should actively try to make connection between a those Advanced drivers and Racers (think "mentors"). Make them a part of the show; make them feel like they belong here! And offer a half step toward racing in the form of Time Trials. Get them hooked through an option that doesn't require as big a commitment as a log booked race car!

(I also think the class structure needs a revision, but that's a lot to talk about in one post).^Brilliant. Add a revenue stream without an accompanying increase in cost. And potentially tap into a demographic not talked about much in here, us geezers that have come to this hobby/sport late in life after career and family commitments have calmed down. And to Pro Coach's point about the fear of risking one's "baby" in wheel to wheel Club Racing, spot on, no thanks.

And we have the disposable to chase TT "circuit". Just take a stroll thru the paddock at any PCA region HPDE Advanced solo day. We're everywhere, driving Clubsports and Cup's and GT3's and GT4's and there RS variants. Come get our money!


Apologies for the lousy cut and paste job. Hope it's understandable. If somebody can fix it, please do.

NastyHabits

^Brilliant. Add a revenue stream without an accompanying increase in cost. And potentially tap into a demographic not talked about much in here, us geezers that have come to this hobby/sport late in life after career and family commitments have calmed down. And to Pro Coach's point about the fear of risking one's "baby" in wheel to wheel Club Racing, spot on, no thanks.

And we have the disposable to chase TT "circuit". Just take a stroll thru the paddock at any PCA region HPDE Advanced solo day. We're everywhere, driving Clubsports and Cup's and GT3's and GT4's and there RS variants. Come get our money!

Double post, sorry. Best this geezer could do.

dgmark

I think Frank hit it on the head. (Modern Porsches are not very suitable for conversion into race cars so you are either "stuck" with older race car conversions or Porsche factory-built race cars) We are running out of affordable race cars. I bought my first porsche 17 years ago for $15,000 and converted it to a race car. that same car today would cost be north of $50,000. 996's are still affordable but 997,s are north of $40,000 with no incentive to race them due to very low car counts in the affordable pca class's. GTB 1 is a popular class but priced out of the average racers budget. The best new class is the mid engine class base Cayman's and Boxster's

Jasons work promoting 911 cup brought me back to the class convincing me to spend money on by old 911. Promoting a class dose work, the same can be said for the Spec Cayman guys.

ProCoach

+1,000!

Post of the thread, so far.

uscarrera

I have been Club Racing for some 20 years and have a few observations, first the posts here are a great start at identifying the reasons for this deduction in attendees. I would add a suggestion I have supported for years which is a better job of introducing DE drivers to Club Racing. The “Rookie School” in PCA is a joke, basically show up and don’t screw up is not a school😀. I am aware of the reluctance of PCA to mix a DE event with anything related to racing but a one full day school on a DE weekend that focuses on what is needed to go wheel to wheel racing in PCA with on track instruction from folks who do race with the interested student and classroom meetings to discuss what to expect, what is required and to answer any Club Race questions. I completely agree with previous comments in this thread about the marketing focus needs for PCA, I would start with a driver survey as to what got them into racing and what they find attractive and what is not a positive feature of Club Racing also I would question Spec Boxster drivers as their numbers seem to be holding well, pick their brains and harvest that gray matter knowledge 😀
Rich

dgmark

I also find it strange that many of my DE customers want to mod the heck out of their already capable new Porsches that they are driving at 7/10th's to win their DE events but are not willing to race them,

stuttgart46

There are a lot of valid points in the comments made so far. I took some time off from club racing for a bit and recently returned. I was shocked at the low turnout I saw at Sebring. I was on the BOD for that race for a few years back in the early 2000's and it used to look like a mini 12 Hours of Sebring in the paddock then. I also noticed that the friendly and welcoming attitude wasn't the same. There were some nice people here and there but besides the select few, it felt clicky and snobby. In comparison, we did a WRL race a few weeks later and we were welcomed by everyone and treated kindly.

In regards to the cost of the cars, I think that will continue to get worse. Especially with the entry level cars, Boxster and Cayman, moving to EV only.

uscarrera

not sure but maybe it was you Chad that no one liked 😀😀
just kidding, good to see you, if/when you get back to Sebring reach out we can do a dinner at the house
stay well
Rich

amurph182

As someone who has been DE’ing for several years and wants to at least dip a toe into racing, I’ll second the comments on their not being a clear link from PCA DEs to club racing. PCA Club Racing rules for noob racers requires a minimum number of DEs and chief instructor sign off, but I’ve never been to a PCA DE where there was ANYTHING said about stepping up to W2W racing. Maybe it’s because of the very clear “DE isn’t racing” messaging, but it’s basically up to you to find the right people in the paddock to give you the right coaching and info. I don’t have a problem with that, I’ve made tons of friends at the track and know who can help me, but it’s definitely not a well defined process with any kind of encouragement from the organization. At a minimum that leaves some number potential racers uninspired to pursue it.

as for the cost of racing/DE/track events in general keeping out the next generation….miatas are cheap. But I wonder how many young people either can’t have two cars (limited parking, the extra costs, etc) or just don’t want to have a cheap track car as their only car/risk their only car at the track. I missed out on 20 years worth of track driving because I couldn’t have two cars and refused to compromise on my daily…what a huge mistake because I didn’t want to drive around in a cheap car or a dinged up e36 or whatever. Time Trials/Autocross are great ways to get people into competitive motorsports without a huge added cost and I wish PCA would pull it all together into an integrated performance driving program rather than managing everything in isolated silos each with their own barriers to entry and, in my experience, entirely different participants and leaders.