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Giving in is not even a consideration. If PCA won't change this requirement than I will vote with my feet.
The sad this is that I have so many friends in the paddock (probably more like people that just tolerate me) that I don't want to just give up and walk away. I'm also very loyal to CVR and our HPDE program so I am conflicted.
From the messages I have received it feels like a large percentage of the paddock uses a CPAP machine. Does anyone feel any safer because the PCA medical committee requires CPAP users to submit data for them to review?
The fact that this matter has been ongoing from February 27, 2024, and I am still no closer to a resolution, signals a broader problem.
SCCA abolished their medical committee on a National level in 2015, IIRC. The Divisional medical review volunteer position was no more after that, either. Part of the motivation to do this mirrored the current issue with the PCA structure for this case, AFAIK.
Bottom line, there is no concentrated power to deprive someone of a competition license if an MD has signed off on the suitability of the applicant for competition driving.
scca way is the right way and only way. Medical clearance for anything means doc examined subject with understanding of the activity. A medical committee or director should be nothing more than a paper push that the medical exam parameters or form has been and applicant medically cleared. There are also hippa issues here. I think pca could be in hot water, while scca is on firm legal ground checking off all the boxes for their insurance too. This pca case is interesting.
scca way is the right way and only way. Medical clearance for anything means doc examined subject with understanding of the activity. A medical committee or director should be nothing more than a paper push that the medical exam parameters or form has been and applicant medically cleared. There are also hippa issues here. I think pca could be in hot water, while scca is on firm legal ground checking off all the boxes for their insurance too. This pca case is interesting.
Hipaa is extremely limited in scope and PCA would not fall under its purview. Do we have the expectation that they need to take reasonable steps to protect our medical records, as well as credit card information provided for race license renewals? Yes. Could there be a lawsuit if there was a data breach? Yes, just like any other company that has a data breach.
All that being said, PCA appears not to have any obligation to comply with Hipaa. Hipaa covers a very narrow band of health care companies and related service providers. It is not the big shield we all think it is protecting our medical data.
All that being said, PCA appears not to have any obligation to comply with Hipaa. Hipaa covers a very narrow band of health care companies and related service providers. It is not the big shield we all think it is protecting our medical data.
Hipaa is extremely limited in scope and PCA would not fall under its purview. Do we have the expectation that they need to take reasonable steps to protect our medical records, as well as credit card information provided for race license renewals? Yes. Could there be a lawsuit if there was a data breach? Yes, just like any other company that has a data breach.
All that being said, PCA appears not to have any obligation to comply with Hipaa. Hipaa covers a very narrow band of health care companies and related service providers. It is not the big shield we all think it is protecting our medical data.
HIPPA is big law and difficult to understand sometimes the document is vague and sometimes specific. I guess that's how lawyers like it so there is wiggle room. If law was well written then no one would need lawyers because we could just read what is written.
I think HIPPA is written vague so that there is flexibility to force others to comply with it. It is not a stretch the a racing organization handling medical information be held to that standard. The list of exempt handlers is not exhaustive. It seems to me that PCA medical if there are medical docs making this decision are practicing outside the scope of their license. Clearly medical decisions can only be made by a treating medical doctor. The correct decision was made by your treating medical doctor. Allowing another doctor to review your medical information does not automatically make them a treating doctor. If they are not a treating doctor then can make no medical decsion. A medical committee can assist an organization to set policy that may or may not be challenged medically or legally. For example no one with blood pressure over 200 systolic may race. Lawyers can sort it out or you just race with SCCA, NASA, or probably anyone else.
HIPPA is big law and difficult to understand sometimes the document is vague and sometimes specific. I guess that's how lawyers like it so there is wiggle room. If law was well written then no one would need lawyers because we could just read what is written.
I think HIPPA is written vague so that there is flexibility to force others to comply with it. It is not a stretch the a racing organization handling medical information be held to that standard. The list of exempt handlers is not exhaustive. It seems to me that PCA medical if there are medical docs making this decision are practicing outside the scope of their license. Clearly medical decisions can only be made by a treating medical doctor. The correct decision was made by your treating medical doctor. Allowing another doctor to review your medical information does not automatically make them a treating doctor. If they are not a treating doctor then can make no medical decsion. A medical committee can assist an organization to set policy that may or may not be challenged medically or legally. For example no one with blood pressure over 200 systolic may race. Lawyers can sort it out or you just race with SCCA, NASA, or probably anyone else.
I agree. Your doctor gets your history, does lab and other tests for you, exams you, diagnoses you, and treats you, and has responsibility and liability for all of that. PCA medical committee isn't your doctor and doesn't do all that. If they have safety concerns related to medical conditions, they should create a form that says that a person doesn't have untreated medical conditions such as X, Y, and Z that could significantly impair ability to drive/race on the track, and have the person's doctor sign that form. That's all. PCA has no right to delve into the private details of someone's medical status and 'play doctor' when they are not your doctor.
When I interview students, I ask them if they have any medical conditions that could affect their ability to safely drive on track (e.g., related to vision or that could cause loss of consciousness). If they say No, which they always do, I take them at their word. I also ask them how well they slept last night, and the answer is often that they slept poorly. I advise them to take naps, use caffeine if they want to, and don't drive if they feel too tired. I never had a student go off and never saw indications that a student's driving was impaired specifically due to lack of sleep.
Honestly, if the medical committee has a question or concern, why don’t they just talk to your personal doctor directly?
If they feel that MAYBE a general doctor doesn’t understand the rigors of racing, just talk to them and explain it. If your doctors says “yes, he/she is fit for that” license granted.
Honestly, if the medical committee has a question or concern, why don’t they just talk to your personal doctor directly?
If they feel that MAYBE a general doctor doesn’t understand the rigors of racing, just talk to them and explain it. If your doctors says “yes, he/she is fit for that” license granted.
Simple solution.
The rigors of racing and track driving are cardiovascular demand, need for physical endurance, ability to turn the steering wheel and work the pedals precisely with unimpaired reaction time, and being subjected to G-forces up to about 2 g several times a minute, all of this sometimes in a hot environment. High level of strength isn't required, and obviously obesity isn't a disqualification. All of this could be explained on a form your doctor is asked to sign.
The rigors of racing and track driving are cardiovascular demand, need for physical endurance, ability to turn the steering wheel and work the pedals precisely with unimpaired reaction time, and being subjected to G-forces up to about 2 g several times a minute, all of this sometimes in a hot environment. High level of strength isn't required, and obviously obesity isn't a disqualification. All of this could be explained on a form your doctor is asked to sign.
It already is! The PCA medical form describes the rigors of club racing, in addition to asking specific medical questions, so our doctors are already signing off with the knowledge of what racing entails.
I now have a few emails from CPAP users where the chair of the medical committee references DOT standards for CPAP users. This has been going on for a long time.
We are the only amateur race organization that has a medical committee - it is time that it was disbanded.
Lastly, I am really starting to lose my patience with this process. Tomorrow begins the PCA LRP race, my home race where my company is the trophy sponsor, and I am really pissed that petty bureaucrats prevent me from driving.
The fact that the medical committee is obstinate is just crazy. How are they not embarrassed?! The ones who support this ridiculous CPAP DOT standard should F off and resign.
The rigors of racing and track driving are cardiovascular demand, need for physical endurance, ability to turn the steering wheel and work the pedals precisely with unimpaired reaction time, and being subjected to G-forces up to about 2 g several times a minute, all of this sometimes in a hot environment. High level of strength isn't required, and obviously obesity isn't a disqualification. All of this could be explained on a form your doctor is asked to sign.
As Todd pointed out, it already does.
My point is that IF they have any questions, why not pick up the phone and talk doctor to doctor. Simple.
TBH, until about 5 or 6 years ago I had all my physicals done at a local urgent care/minute-clinic, with a nurse doing the exam. They didn't know me at all or have any clue what racing was about. They just did the exam, filled in the blank lines, checked the boxes and sent me on my way.
My guess is the fact that PCA has a medial committee at all is solely insurance related...
The rigors of racing and track driving are cardiovascular demand, need for physical endurance, ability to turn the steering wheel and work the pedals precisely with unimpaired reaction time, and being subjected to G-forces up to about 2 g several times a minute, all of this sometimes in a hot environment. High level of strength isn't required, and obviously obesity isn't a disqualification. All of this could be explained on a form your doctor is asked to sign.
Here is the latest industry standard wording for the physician examining the applicant:
You are being asked to examine this applicant for the purpose of obtaining an automobile racing license. This form is a guide and tool for you to determine if the applicant is medically qualified to race. This form concentrates on the organ system and disease processes that may jeopardize the applicant or others while attending a competitive racing event.
Examination is to be completed by a Physician.
Medical History is to be completed by the applicant.
A. The functional suggested requirements of a driver in a competition automobile are:
1. Ability to rapidly operate acceleration, braking, and steering mechanisms/systems.
2. Vision: distant vision correctable to 20/40 each eye, ability to distinguish basic colors, and peripheral vision to 70 degrees in the horizontal median for each eye.
3. Should have minimal chance of sudden incapacitation from any disease process.
4. Ability for rapid mental activity, problem solving, and decision-making.
5. Ability to maintain an aerobic level heart rate for more than 20 minutes.
B. The environment this applicant may operate in is:
1. Temperature extremes from 0 degrees (F) to 120 degrees (F) for long periods of time.
2. Smoke, fumes, vapor, caustic chemicals, and dust.
3. Loud noise and vibration.
4. Increased potential for exposure to fire
In addition, there's this. Increasing frequency of exams required as drivers age:
Requirement of All Applicants*: All applicants must submit a completed APPLICANT'S MEDICAL HISTORY and PHYSICIAN'S EXAM. Similar forms from NASA or full FAA may be acceptable. However, the applicant will be held accountable to the rules, laws, and other parameters, as set forth by the issuing organization or agency.
Renewals:
Applicants that are less than 40 years old must renew their Physical Examination every five years.
Applicants that are at least 40 years old must renew their Physical Examination every three years.
Applicants that are at least 50 years old must renew their Physical Examination every two years.
Applicants that are at least 70 years old must renew their Physical every 12 months.
Finally, in bold and highlighted in the box where the MD signs. Pretty comprehensive:
__________________ -Peter Krause www.peterkrause.net www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
As Todd pointed out, it already does.
My point is that IF they have any questions, why not pick up the phone and talk doctor to doctor. Simple.
TBH, until about 5 or 6 years ago I had all my physicals done at a local urgent care/minute-clinic, with a nurse doing the exam. They didn't know me at all or have any clue what racing was about. They just did the exam, filled in the blank lines, checked the boxes and sent me on my way.
My guess is the fact that PCA has a medial committee at all is solely insurance related...
+1, for sure on the "pick up the phone." Common sense. Has worked well for more than a hundred auto competition clubs for a couple decades here in the US.
Bottom line is there are other organizations that maintain entire risk management divisions (since SCCA has offloaded their pro racing division to TPM a couple years ago, it's ALL for amateur "club" racers), have established relationships of long standing with major motorsports insurance companies and their underwriters, and don't seem to have this problem...
When you consider it's the insurance companies for the organizations and the participants that will be the ones duking it out for legal action FIRST, why is PCA hunting for straws in this case?
It already is! The PCA medical form describes the rigors of club racing, in addition to asking specific medical questions, so our doctors are already signing off with the knowledge of what racing entails.
I now have a few emails from CPAP users where the chair of the medical committee references DOT standards for CPAP users. This has been going on for a long time.
We are the only amateur race organization that has a medical committee - it is time that it was disbanded.
Lastly, I am really starting to lose my patience with this process. Tomorrow begins the PCA LRP race, my home race where my company is the trophy sponsor, and I am really pissed that petty bureaucrats prevent me from driving.
The fact that the medical committee is obstinate is just crazy. How are they not embarrassed?! The ones who support this ridiculous CPAP DOT standard should F off and resign.
Originally Posted by ProCoach
Here is the latest industry standard wording for the physician examining the applicant:
You are being asked to examine this applicant for the purpose of obtaining an automobile racing license. This form is a guide and tool for you to determine if the applicant is medically qualified to race. This form concentrates on the organ system and disease processes that may jeopardize the applicant or others while attending a competitive racing event.
Examination is to be completed by a Physician.
Medical History is to be completed by the applicant.
A. The functional suggested requirements of a driver in a competition automobile are:
1. Ability to rapidly operate acceleration, braking, and steering mechanisms/systems.
2. Vision: distant vision correctable to 20/40 each eye, ability to distinguish basic colors, and peripheral vision to 70 degrees in the horizontal median for each eye.
3. Should have minimal chance of sudden incapacitation from any disease process.
4. Ability for rapid mental activity, problem solving, and decision-making.
5. Ability to maintain an aerobic level heart rate for more than 20 minutes.
B. The environment this applicant may operate in is:
1. Temperature extremes from 0 degrees (F) to 120 degrees (F) for long periods of time.
2. Smoke, fumes, vapor, caustic chemicals, and dust.
3. Loud noise and vibration.
4. Increased potential for exposure to fire
In addition, there's this. Increasing frequency of exams required as drivers age:
Requirement of All Applicants*: All applicants must submit a completed APPLICANT'S MEDICAL HISTORY and PHYSICIAN'S EXAM. Similar forms from NASA or full FAA may be acceptable. However, the applicant will be held accountable to the rules, laws, and other parameters, as set forth by the issuing organization or agency.
Renewals:
Applicants that are less than 40 years old must renew their Physical Examination every five years.
Applicants that are at least 40 years old must renew their Physical Examination every three years.
Applicants that are at least 50 years old must renew their Physical Examination every two years.
Applicants that are at least 70 years old must renew their Physical every 12 months.
Finally, in bold and highlighted in the box where the MD signs. Pretty comprehensive:
The form seems comprehensive and appropriate. Seems that the PCA medical committee is on a power trip, "we know best". If you push back on them, seems that they dig in their heels and are determined to display their power, show who's boss. I agree, the medical committee should be disbanded.
+1, for sure on the "pick up the phone." Common sense. Has worked well for more than a hundred auto competition clubs for a couple decades here in the US.
Bottom line is there are other organizations that maintain entire risk management divisions (since SCCA has offloaded their pro racing division to TPM a couple years ago, it's ALL for amateur "club" racers), have established relationships of long standing with major motorsports insurance companies and their underwriters, and don't seem to have this problem...
When you consider it's the insurance companies for the organizations and the participants that will be the ones duking it out for legal action FIRST, why is PCA hunting for straws in this case?
To be honest, what are they picking up the phone about? The driver's doctor signed a form, which disclosed the hazards of racing, and the doctor attested that it is their medical opinion that the driver is healthy enough to race.
For every other organization that is enough - except PCA.
04-16-2024, 05:14 PM
