Manifold

I agree. PCA should accept the signed form, and not probe further. They should not 'play doctor' and invade privacy if they are not your doctor.

Veloce Raptor

Todd, you can't embarrass small petty people who have no shame. It is sad that they are totally unaccountable, and are exhibiting so much small dick energy. To hell with them.

Nowanker

The situation is simple: Luigi called out a mistake.
Many people (especially those with power?) don't like to be challenged, and push back against the possibility.
Now the mistake is public, and no way in Hell that party will admit he was wrong now.
Next year, or maybe the year after, that asinine 'rule' will be quietly changed...
Of course, with no admission of wrongdoing.

Manifold

Another possibility is that this bad publicity results in PCA National leadership doing the right thing and disbanding the medical committee. PCA has an interest in keeping club racing going, and disbanding the medical committee would cause the chair of the medical committee to lose face, but not necessarily PCA. It would be analogous to a CEO firing a manager because the manager was doing a bad job.

9114609048

"We should be very grateful that our Club is looking out for our best interests. Think of the dangers that were avoided by their not issuing us race licenses.

Nowanker

Hope springs eternal...

Veloce Raptor

LuigiVampa

I know that members of the PCA executive committee are aware of this thread so I take it as symptom of the cancer within PCA that it takes so long to change something which is obviously wrong.

I know you are making a joke but that is exactly their thinking. The medical committee, with backing from PCA legal, believes I am a risk to my fellow drivers because I won't provide details of my CPAP usage.

Since the majority of medical committee members believes that DOT truck driver standards should be used for race car drivers than I question their ability to decide anything for us.

ELange0322

Time for those on this thread to evaluate your risk beyond to other race drivers and maybe to society as a whole ? This thread could get fun !

Seriously Todd - I havent weighed in yet but have followed this from your first post. This is complete insanity and some people just need a goddamn beating. I know how much you do and how involved you are and have been. To say just now that all of a sudden you are a risk only when racing is frankly insulting. The fact that they pop this on you after you sponsored the race is appalling. As you note, they are watching and reading... and doing nothing. Bravo on you sir for walking away until change is made. I'd drive with you any time and feel like others here that would have every confidence being on track with you. Its admirable that you have held to your standard and not bent. Go where people want you and enjoy and leave this train wreck behind. FWIW, its stuff like this thats part of the reason Ive never raced PCA. Sorry its taken your issue to solidly confirm my thought

Veloce Raptor

Todd, have you thought about rescinding your sponsorship for this weekend?

Manifold

You don't even have to compare with driving trucks. From a physical and mental health perspective, the demands of driving cars on track are similar for racing and DE. Moreover, race cars have to meet higher physical safety standards than DE street cars, despite the fact that many DE street cars are faster than many race cars, so DE drivers are, on average, less protected than race car drivers. And yet, neither PCA nor any DE club that I know of requires DE participants to have a medical form signed by a doctor. This is a glaring double standard in PCA between racing and DE. And I have no doubt that lots of people in DE have sleep apnea, both diagnosed and undiagnosed, treated and untreated.

I'm a safety professional (and formerly a safety chair for the largest PCA region), and one of the basic lessons for improving safety is that you need to find out where the real risks are (not just hypothetical risks) and take action to reduce those risks without unintentionally increasing other risks. Where is the evidence that sleep apnea is a significant risk factor for racing or DE? Can anyone provide even one example where a driver was involved in a crash on track because he or she was too sleepy or fell asleep while driving the car? You will sometimes see me taking a nap in the paddock, or at least trying to. I have never been sleepy while driving the car on track, a setting where my heart rate is usually over 100 bpm, sometimes way over that.

LuigiVampa

Thanks Eric. If I have to walk away I will but I hope that PCA will change for the better so that I can stay. To paraphrase Ronald Reagan - I didn't leave the PCA, the PCA left me.

CVR had already committed to ordering the trophies when this issue manifested. I gave my word so I wasn't going to leave my home region with a bill just because PCA national is stupid. I also was a sponsor of CVR's Porsche's@TheRock event last year. Neither of those sponsorships will happen going forward.

You summed this up brilliantly, but PCA medical has convinced PCA legal that there is a risk, and has people who should know better scared to make a change. The Executive Committee knows there is no real risk here but don't want their signature on the "risk".

I will add that while we do actually need PCA legal, they are also a big part of this problem. Good lawyers know how to balance risks - bad lawyers are the ones who perceive a risk in everything, not matter how remote, and try to shut it down. They should be stopping this but they appear to be adding to it.

What makes PCA so different that we need a medical committee?

Nizer

I’ve read all 177 posts on this thread and I’m still unclear. Am I supposed to inform stewards if I had a bad night’s sleep before a race? If so, will my racing license be revoked? What about nightmares related to being on track with Cup drivers?

Professor Helmüt Tester

I have been quiet on this board since the early 'oughts, occasionally venturing in to see what the current chatter might be. This issue has caught my attention, having direct experience with multiple other sanctioning bodies and their medical standards.

As Peter K has pointed out, SCCA dealt with this sort of matter very directly a decade ago.

After a period of intransigence from the then Medical Director over matters that would sound more threatening than just sleep apnea, the SCCA Board of Directors simply eliminated the Medical Director's position, and disbanded the anonymous "Medical Committee". Boom. No resistance from the Risk Managers (the dreaded boogey-man of "Insurers" who are often incorrectly blamed for things happening/not happening), nor from the club's outside legal counsel. Boom. Gone. No more silliness. Of this, I have first-hand knowledge. Was not a bystander or hanger-on in this matter.

Some (especially the outgoing medical director) predicted calamity. Yet no calamity arose. Currently, with some exceptions, if your Dr signs off on the medical form, indicating that you're fit to race, you will race. You might suck at it, but you'll still race.

Don't let internal politics and bad judgement be weaponized against the membership. The precedent for fixing this exists. Is there the spine or the will to fix it ?

Matt Romanowski

Good to see you back and a voice of reason and experience.