PCA medical committee revoked my race license
04-05-2024, 09:41 PM
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PCA medical committee revoked my race license
The PCA medical committee revoked my race license because I felt that their request for me to verify treatment for sleep apnea went beyond what PCA’s minimum standards require.
In my last PCA medical evaluation form I disclosed that I have sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine. I have been using a CPAP machine for several years now, and through an omission, I did not disclose it on my last medical evaluation. That mistake is not the issue.
Even though I had a year left on my existing medical, when I got a new physical in January I thought I would send in a new medical form to get extended for another two years. When PCA saw that I disclosed the use of a CPAP machine, they asked me for more information, which I initially complied with.
The machine I had been using was recently recalled. I forwarded to PCA a receipt showing the recent purchase of a home CPAP and travel CPA, for a total of $2,300. Since the CPAP device was brand new I provided three days’ worth of data from my phone app. PCA said they wanted more information (without specifying what they wanted), so I asked to be put in touch with the medical committee.
Dr. Harry Kintzi, who is the chair of the medical committee, called and told me that the PCA medical committee uses the DOT standard for truck drivers with sleep apnea, and I had to provide much more data from my CPAP device. He said that I was at risk of falling asleep while driving my race car which, barring some things my brother-in-law has said over the years, is probably the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard in my life.
I pushed back in an email and told the medical committee that there was zero correlation between a truck driver sitting sedentary for hours, and a race car driver with an elevated heart rate and adrenalin pumping through their veins. The response I received back from the medical committee was as follows:
“Your analogy with truck drivers is understood. However, a poor night’s sleep with underlying OSA, worries of competing, concerns with race car issues, etc. etc. can take a toll on a racer and poor judgments can be turn into a bad day at best and disaster at worst. It is the consensus of the medical committee that you provide us evidence of compliance with your CPAP regimen prior to being medically approved to continue in PCA Club Racing.”
1. To my knowledge, PCA does not verify treatment of medical conditions. While the medical committee may ask for additional tests, they do not verify treatment. They do not ask for proof if drivers who are diabetic are taking their insulin; drivers with high blood pressure are taking their medicine; or any other medical condition. For the benign medical condition of sleep apnea they want proof of treatment.
2. There are a million different reasons why a driver could be tired, and sleep apnea is only one of them. Should PCA enforce a curfew? How is me being tired from sleep apnea, if I don’t use my CPAP device, any different than the driver who stays out late drinking the day before a race?
3. Providing data from a CPAP machine is only historical. I can use a CPAP device for months, but if I fail to use it the day before a race, I will be tired the next day. There is no cumulative benefit from using a CPAP device and thus the data is only historical. Providing past data does not make anyone safer.
4. I was advised that I could get a letter from my doctor saying that I am in compliance. I responded that my doctor is not in my bedroom at night and he has already signed the medical certification disclosing the use of a CPAP device and that I was clear to race. What would another letter accomplish?
5. To this the medical committee replied, “We understand the rigors and requirements of racing much more than most family doctors as most of us have raced or continue to race.” One of my doctors is a doctor for the US Olympic Track Team so I am pretty sure he understands the rigors of an endurance sport. The medical committee is taking the small amount of information contained in a two-page form and substituting their judgment for the judgment of my doctor, who has known me for many years.
6. If the medical committee has no faith in our doctors than why are we required to submit to a physical every year or two?
7. I have asked repeatedly for the PCA minimum standard that requires this additional information, or even a hint of a medial reason that has some correlation to racing (and not truck drivers), and PCA has not responded.
8. Why would I spend $2,300 on two new machines, just last month, if I was not complying with treatment for sleep apnea? Why wasn't three days worth of data showing that I use the machine enough? Why have I never been told what they want?
The irony is that I disclosed a serious, but unrelated medical condition, ever since I started racing ten years ago. If the medical committee had asked me for copies of an MRI, or other treatment information related to this condition, I would absolutely have turned it over because it would be relevant to my ability to drive. They have never asked me a single question about this, but for sleep apnea, they want more information!
Many of my friends have said “you’re right but why don’t you just give them the information?” The problem is that I am not wired that way. I do not have to agree with a rule in order to see its value, but a requirement in the name of safety needs to yield a safer result in order to be of value. Providing proof of past use of a CPAP machine does NOTHING to prove compliance in the future. Accordingly, I find it impossible to submit to their requirement.
I’m currently a PCA instructor, CVR assistant track chair, a club racer, and my company is the trophy sponsor for the LRP race this year. I was registered to race my 911CUP and GTC6 in two weeks. My registration is cancelled and the race will be out $1,600 in revenue.
I have no doubt PCA will not implode, nor will there be mass resignations, but they won’t get my money or my support. In another bit of irony, I sent my PCA medical evaluation form to IGT and SVRA and my licenses have both been renewed.
I’ll miss my PCA friends, but I won’t support an organization that won’t support me. It’s a personal choice, and I am sure some people will feel I am being petty, but I have never been big on bending the knee to bureaucrats. As has been discussed in another thread recently, there are many options to drive elsewhere, so I will just increase my days with IGT, SVRA, AER and Champ Car.
TL;DR – The PCA medical committee can require that you to submit to any request, even if it is not based on medically sound reasoning, and if you don’t comply they will revoke your race license.
In my last PCA medical evaluation form I disclosed that I have sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine. I have been using a CPAP machine for several years now, and through an omission, I did not disclose it on my last medical evaluation. That mistake is not the issue.
Even though I had a year left on my existing medical, when I got a new physical in January I thought I would send in a new medical form to get extended for another two years. When PCA saw that I disclosed the use of a CPAP machine, they asked me for more information, which I initially complied with.
The machine I had been using was recently recalled. I forwarded to PCA a receipt showing the recent purchase of a home CPAP and travel CPA, for a total of $2,300. Since the CPAP device was brand new I provided three days’ worth of data from my phone app. PCA said they wanted more information (without specifying what they wanted), so I asked to be put in touch with the medical committee.
Dr. Harry Kintzi, who is the chair of the medical committee, called and told me that the PCA medical committee uses the DOT standard for truck drivers with sleep apnea, and I had to provide much more data from my CPAP device. He said that I was at risk of falling asleep while driving my race car which, barring some things my brother-in-law has said over the years, is probably the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard in my life.
I pushed back in an email and told the medical committee that there was zero correlation between a truck driver sitting sedentary for hours, and a race car driver with an elevated heart rate and adrenalin pumping through their veins. The response I received back from the medical committee was as follows:
“Your analogy with truck drivers is understood. However, a poor night’s sleep with underlying OSA, worries of competing, concerns with race car issues, etc. etc. can take a toll on a racer and poor judgments can be turn into a bad day at best and disaster at worst. It is the consensus of the medical committee that you provide us evidence of compliance with your CPAP regimen prior to being medically approved to continue in PCA Club Racing.”
1. To my knowledge, PCA does not verify treatment of medical conditions. While the medical committee may ask for additional tests, they do not verify treatment. They do not ask for proof if drivers who are diabetic are taking their insulin; drivers with high blood pressure are taking their medicine; or any other medical condition. For the benign medical condition of sleep apnea they want proof of treatment.
2. There are a million different reasons why a driver could be tired, and sleep apnea is only one of them. Should PCA enforce a curfew? How is me being tired from sleep apnea, if I don’t use my CPAP device, any different than the driver who stays out late drinking the day before a race?
3. Providing data from a CPAP machine is only historical. I can use a CPAP device for months, but if I fail to use it the day before a race, I will be tired the next day. There is no cumulative benefit from using a CPAP device and thus the data is only historical. Providing past data does not make anyone safer.
4. I was advised that I could get a letter from my doctor saying that I am in compliance. I responded that my doctor is not in my bedroom at night and he has already signed the medical certification disclosing the use of a CPAP device and that I was clear to race. What would another letter accomplish?
5. To this the medical committee replied, “We understand the rigors and requirements of racing much more than most family doctors as most of us have raced or continue to race.” One of my doctors is a doctor for the US Olympic Track Team so I am pretty sure he understands the rigors of an endurance sport. The medical committee is taking the small amount of information contained in a two-page form and substituting their judgment for the judgment of my doctor, who has known me for many years.
6. If the medical committee has no faith in our doctors than why are we required to submit to a physical every year or two?
7. I have asked repeatedly for the PCA minimum standard that requires this additional information, or even a hint of a medial reason that has some correlation to racing (and not truck drivers), and PCA has not responded.
8. Why would I spend $2,300 on two new machines, just last month, if I was not complying with treatment for sleep apnea? Why wasn't three days worth of data showing that I use the machine enough? Why have I never been told what they want?
The irony is that I disclosed a serious, but unrelated medical condition, ever since I started racing ten years ago. If the medical committee had asked me for copies of an MRI, or other treatment information related to this condition, I would absolutely have turned it over because it would be relevant to my ability to drive. They have never asked me a single question about this, but for sleep apnea, they want more information!
Many of my friends have said “you’re right but why don’t you just give them the information?” The problem is that I am not wired that way. I do not have to agree with a rule in order to see its value, but a requirement in the name of safety needs to yield a safer result in order to be of value. Providing proof of past use of a CPAP machine does NOTHING to prove compliance in the future. Accordingly, I find it impossible to submit to their requirement.
I’m currently a PCA instructor, CVR assistant track chair, a club racer, and my company is the trophy sponsor for the LRP race this year. I was registered to race my 911CUP and GTC6 in two weeks. My registration is cancelled and the race will be out $1,600 in revenue.
I have no doubt PCA will not implode, nor will there be mass resignations, but they won’t get my money or my support. In another bit of irony, I sent my PCA medical evaluation form to IGT and SVRA and my licenses have both been renewed.
I’ll miss my PCA friends, but I won’t support an organization that won’t support me. It’s a personal choice, and I am sure some people will feel I am being petty, but I have never been big on bending the knee to bureaucrats. As has been discussed in another thread recently, there are many options to drive elsewhere, so I will just increase my days with IGT, SVRA, AER and Champ Car.
TL;DR – The PCA medical committee can require that you to submit to any request, even if it is not based on medically sound reasoning, and if you don’t comply they will revoke your race license.
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04-10-2024, 09:19 AM
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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As one who is a CPAP user, and also had to submit the discussed compliance documentation, allow me to offer an observation.
Once the ruling was made by medical, there was no turning back. Regardless of the validity of the ruling, or the science, or lack thereof in support of the decision. Everyone in a position to support or reverse said decision has their hands tied. It’s like a CEO making a poor business decision. Publicly, the board supports the CEO, however behind the scenes all sorts of discussion will be taking place.
I would also caution grouping all PCA Club Race volunteers into a group. Especially characterizing them as on a “petty bureaucratic power trip”. That’s just silly. The vast majority of folks supporting PCA have the best of intentions. They freely give up their time to supply a “fairly” good product to us racers. Is there room for improvement, for sure. Are there a number of quality competitors to Club Racing, of course. Club Racing has to find a better way to compete, just like any organization.
I am a 911 Cup racer. The class and club racing as a whole are more interesting and a better product with people like Todd involved. I just don’t think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Once the ruling was made by medical, there was no turning back. Regardless of the validity of the ruling, or the science, or lack thereof in support of the decision. Everyone in a position to support or reverse said decision has their hands tied. It’s like a CEO making a poor business decision. Publicly, the board supports the CEO, however behind the scenes all sorts of discussion will be taking place.
I would also caution grouping all PCA Club Race volunteers into a group. Especially characterizing them as on a “petty bureaucratic power trip”. That’s just silly. The vast majority of folks supporting PCA have the best of intentions. They freely give up their time to supply a “fairly” good product to us racers. Is there room for improvement, for sure. Are there a number of quality competitors to Club Racing, of course. Club Racing has to find a better way to compete, just like any organization.
I am a 911 Cup racer. The class and club racing as a whole are more interesting and a better product with people like Todd involved. I just don’t think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Maybe I hate rules that just don't make any sense. Maybe I am more against the process than the rule. Maybe I didn't like how the rule was explained to me. Maybe I just have an anti-authoritarian streak which makes me kind of an a-hole. More likely than not it is a combination of all these things.
I think the vast majority of people who volunteer for the PCA are here for the right reason. I have also served on enough boards and commissions to know that some people are there for the right reason, and some people lack the temperament or judgment to serve. As an elected official, for a position which paid nothing, I had letters written to the local newspaper attacking me personally because people didn't agree with a decision I made. I had people yell at me at meetings. I was the chair of the F-ing library board! We were not arguing over banned books or anything like that. It sucks to be a volunteer and get your head handed to you - I get it!
Let me say this here publicly - Aaron Ambrosino, the PCA president, and David Rodenroth, the club race chair, have jumped all over this issue and are trying to work out a solution. They want a solution. And not just because I am howling in dismay, but because they see a problem and want it remedied. In my anger I have been sharp with some of my words, but I hope, and do not believe, that I have drifted over the line into being unkind. Although it is no excuse, the tone for this conversation was set by the medical committee in the first call, not by me. Hell, this is me being nice! That is because there are so many friends calling and messaging me saying that if you go nuclear you appear unreasonable and will lose support.
PCA is a member organization of 160,000 people and I have spoken with the president on the phone at least a half dozen times, and exchange more than that in emails. He is trying to do the right thing and I do appreciate that - even though it doesn't seem like I do at times. He is a volunteer, as is Dave, and they have better things to do with their time than referee a battle of wills.
My anger is still directed at the medical committee, and volunteers or not, that doesn't excuse being obstinate in the face of a poor decision. Arrogance, pride, hubris? Despite several weeks of asking I have never received a single substantive response to my requests - the only responses I have received could be interpretated as "because we say so". Would you not be upset?
I will say that the only good thing that has come out of this who mess is the tons of support I have received reminding me that the people in the paddock are some of the best people in the world. I often tell non-racers a story about how in 2022 I was at the CMP race, which was the last race of the year, trying to win the championship. My clutch blew up in practice one and TJ Larson, who was in first place in the championship, sold me his spare clutch. With my clutch repaired I went on to win the championship. Non-racers scream with disbelief and don't understand that you help a fellow racer no matter what. I've sold parts and tires to fellow competitors, but never when the championship was on the line, but I know I would never hesitate to do so. I'm so very glad TJ won the championship this past year because he is one of the most honorable club racers I know. The point is that it underscores the code we all adhere to and the type of people you find in the paddock.
I will miss the Lime Rock Park club race - CVR is the region where I am assistant track chair (a volunteer!) and LRP is my home track. It will be painful not to race, and I dearly wanted to compete for the new trophy that my company is sponsoring. My hope is that this gets cleared up before Watkins Glen, and life can go back to normal, ad I can find something new to rant about!
Thank you again for all the kind words and support, and even the contrary views.
04-05-2024, 10:05 PM
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That is simply absurd.
I haven't seen this happen in dozens of different clubs (most of which have Regional, Divisional and National MD's to review) over tens of thousands of drivers in the thirty-five years I have been part of issuing novice credentials and comp licenses for a variety of different, national organizations.
Point #1
Enough said.
I haven't seen this happen in dozens of different clubs (most of which have Regional, Divisional and National MD's to review) over tens of thousands of drivers in the thirty-five years I have been part of issuing novice credentials and comp licenses for a variety of different, national organizations.
Point #1
Enough said.
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04-05-2024, 10:10 PM
#3
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Surely there's a way to resolve this without walking away. Many of us have medical issues that could cause a bad nights sleep. I agree that unless you have narcolepsy or similar disorders or maybe if you are racing a Yugo, it would be tough to fall asleep while racing but I can see wanting to ensure that people are receiving appropriate treatment for some conditions that could effect a racers fitness. Just not sure it's that applicable in this case.
Last edited by sbelles; 04-05-2024 at 10:18 PM.
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04-05-2024, 10:11 PM
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I feel your pain.
Pisses me off when some petty-*** bureaucrat takes some half baked idea and decides it's the LAW.
There's the current thread about club racing participation being down.
Add one more item to list of drawbacks: The bullsh*t factor.
I don't race with the PCA, so I'm not intimately familiar with their structure, but I did race with the BMWCCA for several years.
I filled out all their forms, and met all their many requirements for a race license, and in a timely manner for an upcoming race.
It wasn't 'good enough'... They had a few more hurdles they wanted me to jump through, and were thereby unable to grant it in time.
At which point I said, out loud... "F*CK THOSE GUYS! I'll go race with NASA."
I doubt my absence effected them, but it made me feel better.
Pisses me off when some petty-*** bureaucrat takes some half baked idea and decides it's the LAW.
There's the current thread about club racing participation being down.
Add one more item to list of drawbacks: The bullsh*t factor.
I don't race with the PCA, so I'm not intimately familiar with their structure, but I did race with the BMWCCA for several years.
I filled out all their forms, and met all their many requirements for a race license, and in a timely manner for an upcoming race.
It wasn't 'good enough'... They had a few more hurdles they wanted me to jump through, and were thereby unable to grant it in time.
At which point I said, out loud... "F*CK THOSE GUYS! I'll go race with NASA."
I doubt my absence effected them, but it made me feel better.
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04-05-2024, 10:20 PM
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WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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I can bend the knee to the medical committee.
Without saying too much, there were a few people high up in PCA who appeared to support me, but none would go against the medical committee. It is maddening!
First time I have laughed in the last few days!
Without saying too much, there were a few people high up in PCA who appeared to support me, but none would go against the medical committee. It is maddening!
Sorry to hear that. Did you tell'em you weren't racing anyway. Link
04-05-2024, 10:36 PM
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Crazy, I feel for you dude. Bureaucracy at its worst.
As Nowaker wrote, yet another reason PCA is losing racers and DE drivers.
As Nowaker wrote, yet another reason PCA is losing racers and DE drivers.
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04-05-2024, 10:37 PM
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04-05-2024, 10:44 PM
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This is very unfortunate. As a physician albeit not a pulmonologist, I am a little puzzled with the decision. For one thing I know for a fact that many PCA club racers submit sham History and Physicals (don’t ask me how I know!). On the other hand, the problem with “medical bureaucracy” is that either you “submit” fully or not at all. I wish you had shammed your medical just like many others. After all, there is no independent medical exam like in IMSA for instance. If your personal doctor “cleared” you to race, that’s good enough for me.
Last edited by MSR Racer; 04-05-2024 at 10:49 PM.
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04-05-2024, 10:45 PM
#12
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This is completely absurd that they are running you through this ringer. I've watched guys take 20 minutes to get out of a car after a race and need help, yet they get to keep going out. I can't tell you how many diabetics are on track and pose a real threat to other racers. I wouldn't worry about the 1/3 of the field that has a cpap, I would worry about the 1/3 that needs one and doesn't have one! Sorry you're dealing with this BS.
Maybe Driver8 who reads Rennlist and occasionally comments can pipe in. He is one of the people that has the ability to put an end to this the right way.
Maybe Driver8 who reads Rennlist and occasionally comments can pipe in. He is one of the people that has the ability to put an end to this the right way.
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04-05-2024, 11:04 PM
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Absolutely absurd, but not worth giving up your joy in life to “take a stand”. Bureaucrats always win, not worth fighting.
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04-05-2024, 11:09 PM
#14
Wow this reminds me of FAA pilot medical crap. But even the FAA allows sleep apnea - although there are some specific criteria. It's called the Berlin questionnaire I wonder if showing that you meet the FAA standard would help - surely if it's good enough for an airline pilot, it's good enough for a driver. If you're interested, message me and I can send you contact info for an aeromedical doctor that specializes in cases like this (for pilots).
It sounds like PCA's behavior will encourage lying.
It sounds like PCA's behavior will encourage lying.
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04-05-2024, 11:19 PM
#15
So we are long-haul truckers now. Got it.
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