Streak

I think the point is that PCA wants you to demonstrate that you can race within the rules and under control. You can only do that on track.

Sitting out for 13 months does not show PCA that you've learned anything from the incident.

I don't dislike this approach

I do see how it sucks if you only do one or 2 race weekends a year.

As for the "passing" rule we have I think one of the problems when the stewards are analyzing what happened in an incident on track they are using 2 or 3 or more different camera angles and they forget that both drivers involved only have the information they can see through their windows and mirrors. While it's helpful to determine how or what happened it's imperative to put yourself back in the "driver's view" when determining blame.

Jared Rodeheaver

Unfortunately I think the amount of contact "rubout's" allowed on a race to race weekend is out of control and none of these rule changes matter since these are not part of the equation. Just watch the B1 race from last weekend at LRP.. This contact is allowed mentality is deterring people from PCA CR and not attracting them. This is supposed to be a hobby and we all want to win but not at the cost of running into others etc.

redmcoupe

Others have mentioned, we need more transparency. I can’t figure out when we have commenting periods, what can be implemented immediately, etc. It feels like a free for all where administration can make any decision without full membership consultation. Sometimes there needs to be immediate decisions but imo, this isn’t one of them. If you announce a ruling, it should start with a problem statement. I shouldn’t have to infer that. Personally, my biggest issue is more laxity with contact over time. I thought pca club racing was promoted as a no contact league but certainly hasn’t demonstrated that. That said, driving standards have definitely “changed”. So my problem statement as a club racer I don’t feel is addressed which is, there is too much contact in PCA already. So in my mind this rule change immediately hit me as, it will be worse, as there was no explanation of the problem attempting to be solved and how it goes about solving it.
What I will say is this. I’m not alone in feeling that the contact is too much, with too little consequences. So any rule that appears to make it even more lax is off-putting on the surface.
I’d much rather race with a group that races hard but respects a no contact mentality to minimize incidents. We’ve just gotten to the point where there are some aggressive drivers, those that know who they are and just avoid, and those that try not to be intimidated and wind up with contact, just to then say the aggressive driver “could be at fault” but hey, it’s just a rubout.
Naturally incidents will happen but I personally prefer to embrace the no contact mentality. Any rule that makes drivers feel less punishment with contact and encourages lower driving standards will also push out drivers like me who don’t want a smashed up Porsche at the end of a weekend… My point is, it won’t come for free and the club will lose racers one way or the other without changes. Just have to decide which drivers you want to cater to.

there’s a lot to unpack but let’s start there.

NaroEscape

+1
Like the rubout on my car last year that cost me over $2500 to "Rub Out".... and it's still not completely fixed.

NaroEscape

yes, but this new rule FORCES them to race with PCA AND be careful to get off probation. That part I do like.

But back to the consistent enforcement of the rules. I do know a few people that got their first 13 and felt it was unwarranted, so they sat out 13 months (and raced with other groups) for fear that if anything around them happened at all, they would be blamed and be suspended.

redmcoupe

Yes, exactly. For me, there is a problem statement around driving standards diminishing and therefore decreased respect for space and "light" contact, which eventually breeds more contact. As others more in the know have stated, it appears PCA has more contact than other leagues. In my mind, this continues to be a concern. But since there is no problem statement along with this particular rule change, it's unclear what is being addressed.

But as was pointed out, I do like that you must race "clean" races while under probation as opposed to time-binding. But I don't see why allow points to be accumulated other than trying to incentivize them to continue to drive vs drop PCA. If data supported that they don't usually offend 2nd time, then I'd feel comfortable racing with them.

Jas0nn

What other sprint series are you guys thinking of that have less contact?

SCCA has tons.

NASA too.

If we're just comparing PCA to vintage orgs, that doesn't seem like a fair comparison ...

winders

So they treated their first 13 like they got their second 13 because they feared getting a second 13? Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense…

NaroEscape

People have their reasons to do what they do. If you felt it was an unjustified 13 to begin with, maybe you're pissed off at PCA, maybe you're afraid you'll get blamed again for something you didn't do. Going somewhere else for 13 months, you come back with a clean slate....if you ever come back.

LuigiVampa

As many are pointing out, how any car club handles car to car contact is multi-faceted issue, of which the penalty is just one part.

The main gripe amongst the drivers is the inconsistency of the rulings. There is also the issue of the severity of the punishment relative to the severity of the incident. PCA attempted to fix only the length of the punishment.

I think this was rushed and all the issues regarding car to car contact should have been fleshed out before making any change.

ProCoach

Bingo!

ProCoach

Ummm, it’s the same rules…

Jas0nn

Entirely different mindset.

Jas0nn

When we talk about "rules," we're really talking about the consequences. But that mindset/approach is significantly different. This is clear enough even within PCA; the Purple rungroup at LRP featuring the vintages classes and 911CUP is a great example.

Mike Roblin

And maybe this is exactly the problem? Meaning, maybe it shouldn't be a different mindset!

I think this makes my point, the vintage group seems to have less contact than the groups with more modern cars - possibly because those driving in those groups have a greater amount of respect for their competitors (created through camaraderie amongst the group - which you've fostered very well!)