dan212

From: PCA Club Racing Rules Committee
April 19, 2024

After careful consideration, significant input from racers, shop owners, David Murry, and the national team we have decided the time is right to abolish the 13/13 rule. In its place the following will apply:

1. At-fault incidents will result in a 9-race probation with the retention of your national championship points for all races other than the one in which the incident occurred. 2. A second at-fault incident during the probationary period will result in a 6-month suspension from the program, after which the racer must apply to the race chair for reinstatement. 3. This program change is retroactive to the beginning of the 2024 season and anyone currently on a 13/13 probation or suspension.

PCA Club Racing has been collecting data for many years and that data helped guide the decision to change the 13/13 rule. We believe that our racers will continue to operate at a high level, with a relatively low incident rate while competing for the coveted PCA Club Racing National Championship.

If you have questions or comments about this change, please reach out to me at info@pcaclubracing.org

Dave Rodenroth
PCA Club Racing Chair

winders

I am not sure why shop owners and David Murray have anything to do with this decision....

I am not sure I like this. It seems like a way for the more reckless drivers to stay in the system and continue to play and still be able to go for championships. Shop owners would of course like this. It keeps their drivers driving and in play for titles.

Veloce Raptor

This is quite a twist

Oddjob

So if you run 1-2 PCA Races a year, you'll be on probation for 5-9 years if you have an incident.

dgmark

A race weekend usually consists of three races. you will off probation after three race weekends if you run the enduro.

Frank 993 C4S

Correct, however who runs only 1-2 races a year? One race weekend alone usually has 3 races, so we are talking about three race weekends here.

Oddjob

Very true, I was incorrectly thinking events, not race sessions. That said, I haven't run an enduro since 2005.

Will DNF/DQ's count?

Frank 993 C4S

Good question that will need to be clarified.

cienegavista

From Scott: "Shop owners would of course like this. It keeps their drivers driving and in play for titles"
Bingo, follow the money
mc

LuigiVampa

Last week at the Road Atlanta race PCA had a meeting to discuss changes to the 13/13 rule and a week later at the LRP race those changes are announced.

Can we apply that same problem solving drive to "other problems?"

While I am generally in favor of the direction this change is taking us, I am curious who the racers were who were consulted?

winders

Why are you generally in favor of the direction this change is taking us? How does this do anything other than encourage worse behavior than we have seen in the last several years? Who does it benefit? How does it benefit the average racer?

Difool

Data was mentioned a lot. I’d love to see some summary stats, but I’m hopeful that it shows that the problem drivers that got bans where doing so within a few race weekends of their probation and very few almost a year later.

I’m supportive of this as long as data continues to be watched. This keeps good drivers that make a single bad mistake from losing a year of championship competition. We bemoan the lack of attendance and the disappearance of whole race events. If we are serious about trying to fix that then we’ll have to try a whole bunch of changes. I hope we will see many more changes.

LuigiVampa

The data supposedly showed that most incidents were not the result of repeat offenders and that a 13 disproportionally punished an otherwise safe driver.

I don't know if this rule is better until we have a couple of year's worth of data, but I think the 13/13 rules was overly harsh in many cases. This is also only one part of the issue - the other part of the problem is how incidents are decided. That needs to be cleaned up as well.

I'm still curious who among the drivers were asked and how this rule compares to other race series?

We are a member organization and it appears that PCA doesn't make enough of an effort to find out what drivers really want. I don't like decisions which are made because "PCA knows best."

ProCoach

I posted this elsewhere, but here goes...

Gussied up 13/13, just with different terms/events. What's missing is the intent of the rule change. Especially ineffective as a deterrent when no one loses championship points except for that incident event RACE. There needs to be a cumulative penalty, with teeth.

The problem was not the old 13/13, watered down as it was.

The problem was the inconsistent (or no) application of it. What's worse was the misapplication of it. Not an isolated occurrence...

A few years ago, a group of professional coaches were asked to review a competitor (competitor A's) video, along with the cars around them, who was hit (with significant and costly damage).

Initially, competitor B was found at fault, at the event. All of the professionals reviewing the video agreed unanimously and without hesitation that that was the correct call.

After the event, competitor B appealed the steward's decision. A higher level of steward not only reversed competitor B's finding of fault, but through a process indecipherable to any of us, found competitor A to be at fault, assigning him a 13 month probation.

Ludicrous.

Don't see how this change will streamline the "determining fault" process on the administrative side OR act as a serious deterrent on the participant side.

ProCoach

LV, I will only add that a PROPERLY ADMINISTERED 13 does not disproportionately punish an otherwise safe driver. All drivers are safe, until they aren't.

Leadership needs to lead so that racers are incented to be there because competition is safe, fair and fun.

This sounds like they were shooting from the hip on this one...