macfly

This is a totally hypothetical thread for those of us in the LA area who love our local track, but would love just a little bit more of a challenge from Willow Springs.

I thought about it a lot, and I think that the one part of the track that is a bit dull is the 6-8 stretch, so I thought a loop returning us into the slope of the hill could create a steeply banked parabolica that would then shoot you down towards the inside of what is now 8-9, then have left-right opening up into what is now 8, meaning it would be an increaing radius blast towards what is no 9.

Any other thoughts, suggestions or pipe dreams?

fatbillybob

Personally, WSIR is my least favorite track because 1) it is boring, 2) 8/9 scare the &*^%$ out of me. However, the cool thing about the track is that it has never changed. So if you run a 1:40 in 2000 and a 1:40 in 2004 you can compare apples to apples. I love buttonwillow but have run it say 5 times and never the same configuation twice. So it is impossible to note improvements in car or driver because there is no consistency in the course. I think WSIR is great to learn to get better because you can watch your progress. I like your new track layout. If that could stick around for a while then again you would have consistency...but we don't need another buttonwillow.

JackOlsen

It's an interesting idea. For the layout you've sketched in, you'd need to add a fixed wall on the downhill side of 5 and 6, so that no one goes off of 5 and into your new infield 'turn 8.'

But the virtue of Willow's big track (in my opinion) is its simplicity. You can learn the basic line in about four laps. I know that in my case, I've been driving it very regularly for four full years, now, and there are only maybe two corners that I think I don't still have room to seriously improve on. It's the quintessential 'minute-to-learn, lifetime-to-master' track.

It's also the best reference track for California drivers. It's more of a momentum track than a horsepower track. It's only run in one direction, and it only has one configuration. If you're sub-1:30 at Willow in a street-legal Porsche, it's a pretty clear indicator of knowing what you're doing behind the wheel. (Or you've got one hell of an amazing street-legal Porsche. )

It's part of the unique character of Willow Springs that the very-technical streets course gets ho-hum long before the 'bone stock' easy-to-learn big track does.

Willow Springs is also America's oldest continuously-operated road course. I think it's cool that it's the same layout they were running in the fifties, even though the pits used to be in the infield, and spectators were allowed to be moving chicanes.

ca993twin

macfly.

I like the general idea of your drawing, but a spin off of turn 5 (is that the right number?) could put you right in the path of your new section.

Phil

changes to willow springs....hmmmmm
1) a nice 4 or 5 star hotel....maybe a casino.....somthing with a nice
pool......of course hotel would have to have a "detail " service
2) enclose the track. Like the astrodome....and pump some nice cool air in.....
3) a club house......were you can view...the hired drovers droving
your car aound.
4) full service gas station....clean your windows, check the oil....et

c

macfly

I like the general idea of your drawing, but a spin off of turn 5 (is that the right number?) could put you right in the path of your new section.
Already though of that, and have in my mind a much improved run off for 5, with a good catchment area. If you come off at 5 the hill actually slopes back up a bit, and holds you pretty well, you'd never get to the back of the banked parabolica, which would be quite a bit lower and just a little to the west of 5's runoff. The run off on five is actually pretty high, if you stand there and look out over the track, think of the view from 6. The parabolica would be down at the base of that hill

Remember my sketch isn't a full scale architects drawing, if it was I'd have run off, catchment and containment all shown. I would make it a track where there would be far less chance of any damage in an off than it is now. All I have to now is win the lotto!!

Phil, I'm totally with you on 1, 3 and 4. Boy do I need to win the lotto!!

chris walrod

Phil, you forgot the topless, tire pressure drive-through service with a smile option

Seriously now, the big track would get my attention if it was more technical, or at least configurable to be more technical. I guess one could argue that it is technical in that the high-speed nature of the course demands (and rewards) precision and consistency.

NetManiac

Jack, that's a cool pic. T3 right?

I'm not sure I have any input on changes to the course itself. Except maybe smoothing out the pavement in some areas. However, I do like Phil's suggestion's.

kary993

WSIR is my LEAST favorite track. There is little that is very technical except for the set up going into 9 (which is more about finding it than doing it) and turn 2 whicih is a fun difficult corner to go very fast through asn still stay on the track. The rest of the track is REALLY boring. The other thing about this track is the driver's side tires a worn to heck while the right sides are fine. What were they thinking, go the opposite way of the NASCAR boys?

I like tracks that have equally challenging right and left hand turns, sweepers, and on and off camber sections. Places like Sears Point, Laguna Seca, Spring Mountain, and Buttonwillow are very challenging and fun tracks to go fast at. California Speedway is another track I like but more for the multiple speed sections that are offered in a single lap.

Anyway, that just my opinion.

I like the proposed change to WSIR because it puts more of a premium on driver technical skill versus big b@lls!

911

Personally, I think Willow is great the way it is. It's one of the few tracks where bravado & experience really pays off.

Martin S.

Turn 8 and 9 are bloody damn incredible...turn 8 in a somewaht well prepared 993 is the fastest part of the track, close to 120 in a consrtant radius turn and then brake for turn 9 trying desperately to carry the maximum amout of speed out while still hitting th apex. There are only 9 turns...but so much to shoot for, let's say a 1:35 of better in my little under pointed car POC "LP" car. I have seen a 1:36, but that is as good at is has gotten for me, so far! And as Rich says, it does take bravado (cajones), pelotas, a pair of brass ones, whatever you call it to drive the track well. And I like the fact that you can always judge your present time by what you have done in the past.

M758

I have raced at Willow 4 times. I love the track. The reason is that it is true throw back track.

Most tracks like that have mutilated with sections to "slow the cars down". Well there are more techinal tracks out there, but keep Willow as it is. If you want more techinal you have places to go. If you want fast high speed action Willow is great the way it is.

My best lap there is a mere 1:39. That is in a 131 rwhp 2600 lbs 944. I can go faster, but I must be perfect in each of the 8 corners (turn 7 does not really exist).

Any it s great track to race on as well. Wide and flowing. Want fun and a challenge...

Go two wide through 8 and 9. That will wake you up a little.

My first race at willow was with 64 cars on track. Very intersting and Fun.

I know that my lap times (set after 12 seesions in 105F) can get better. Spec cars should be able to get to 1:36-1:37 easy. Well my next time there I will need to work on the little things that can get me there.

Premier Motorsp

Before you call WSIR boring you need to run thru 8 WFO a few times. That will change your attitude about it. 8 is just about the fastest corner in country.

Also the character of the track really changes when you lap at under 1:25. It loses that 'long, big track' feeling and keeps you really busy.

Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports

chilix

I have never driven Willow Springs but I have been there many times over when I was younger and living out west. Just those childhood memories get me wanting to drive the track. Besides Road Altanta my next favorite track is Roebling Road because of the fast corners and sweepers. Willow Springs seems to be a west coast version.

Another thing. Does anybody not notice the development around the track? Subdivisons, School, shopping centers? I think before the track is messed with, there should be concer about someone buying out the track to build a spa. My opinion. Check out Riverside. Roebling Road is hilarious. Not 100 feet out the front straigh of the track there are homes lined up. Good thing the SCCA likes that race track.

Martin S.

Chris Cervelli from Premier Motorsports has lots of experience in preparing race cars. Me thinks I will be listening to his observations. I have never found Willow boring in my LP car. Turn 8 and 9 cave a consistent high pucker factor...in addition, it takes lots of skill to get through 1 and 2 well. Turn one (1) is a 5th to 4th downshift with braking and very fast, very very fast. I hope I can get so good some day that WSIR will bore me, until that time, I'll drive it every chance I can get...what a great place for an adrenilin fix!