New Harness Standard for DE events - Page 3

Bill N · 02-08-2007, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavlino

Paul next time we are at the track you can look at the seats in our car. We have one Recaro Pole Pos (1 piece seat) and a Recaro SRD type. There is no problem using the factory belts with those seats.

How did these affect your head room?

mrbillfll · 02-08-2007, 12:19 PM

can I assume I need new seats?

I have old recaro's, with belts running thru the headrest. sub is restrained by seat bar

Paul902 · 02-08-2007, 01:44 PM

Thanks all who replied about race seats fitting with OEM belts. That gives me enough options to think about.

Carm, a trial would be great, then I could even compare how I fit into those two seat styles. Maybe you'd let me test if you car feels faster than mine because of the seats....

cavlino · 02-08-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul902

Thanks all who replied about race seats fitting with OEM belts. That gives me enough options to think about.

Carm, a trial would be great, then I could even compare how I fit into those two seat styles. Maybe you'd let me test if you car feels faster than mine because of the seats....

Hey Paul you are more then welcome to test sit our car. As far as a test drive well you will have to do some sweet talking to Helena before that will happen

cavlino · 02-08-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill N

How did these affect your head room?

Actually we found the seat adjustment allowed us more headroom. We will be at the RSR Calabogie event the first weekend in May. You are more then welcome to have a look and fitting

Just look for our black 911, our car number is 28.

Ed Newman · 02-08-2007, 09:10 PM

I'm glad to see PCA starting to take safety more seriously. As for NASA, I am not sure of changes in their DE program, but they have the strictest standards around for club racing, requiring a full cage with DOUBLE door bars and either a center net or halo seat. I wish PCA would follow for club racing, I have and continue to be a critic of the lax safety regulations in PCA club racing.

RedlineMan · 02-08-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Newman

I'm glad to see PCA starting to take safety more seriously. As for NASA, I am not sure of changes in their DE program, but they have the strictest standards around for club racing, requiring a full cage with DOUBLE door bars and either a center net or halo seat. I wish PCA would follow for club racing, I have and continue to be a critic of the lax safety regulations in PCA club racing.

Well...

The other side of that coin is that there really are not very many people that truly understand how safety systems are supposed to work to be making a lot of critical judgements. If I were to be critical of PCA, it would be for THAT.

If you do not have knowledge of a certain subject, you shouldn't make rules about it. They don't on both accounts. They miss the first mark, but at least they don't make it WORSE.

Bob Rouleau · 02-08-2007, 11:33 PM

Pete - I have a question. In our region I have insisted that people using a harness bar and stock seats (no holes) with a harness wear the factory three point belt over the harness.
That way if the harness slips down (known to happen) the factory belts prevent to occupant from sliding forward.

Is this solution acceptable?

Best,

RedlineMan · 02-09-2007, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau

Pete - I have a question. In our region I have insisted that people using a harness bar and stock seats (no holes) with a harness wear the factory three point belt over the harness.
That way if the harness slips down (known to happen) the factory belts prevent to occupant from sliding forward. Is this solution acceptable?

Hey;

I want to pipe up and support this notion. To date, no sanctioning body has seemed to embrace the logic of this idea because "it has not been tested." C'maaaahn! Yes, the world of crash dynamics is full of interesting occurences, but this setup causing a problem is likely not one of them.

How exactly would 3-point belts - with their relatively "limited effectiveness" - suddenly morph into a demon seed when used in conjunction with a race harness? I don't see it. Gregg, any thoughts?

Once again... shoot the lawyers.

gbaker · 02-09-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedlineMan

...Gregg, any thoughts?

It is highly unlikely that the condom/diaphragm/pill combination has been tested as a method of birth control either, but we all can agree that it is more effective than any component used alone.

Bill N · 02-09-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavlino

Actually we found the seat adjustment allowed us more headroom. We will be at the RSR Calabogie event the first weekend in May. You are more then welcome to have a look and fitting

Just look for our black 911, our car number is 28.

Many thanks, Carm. I don't think I'll be at that event, but appreciate your response and your offer.

Bill

kurt M · 02-09-2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau

Pete - I have a question. In our region I have insisted that people using a harness bar and stock seats (no holes) with a harness wear the factory three point belt over the harness.
That way if the harness slips down (known to happen) the factory belts prevent to occupant from sliding forward.

Is this solution acceptable?

Best,

this is the same thing we would do in our region as well wen presented with a poor setup that still had stock belts.

speedread · 02-09-2007, 09:46 AM

I use GT3 seats. the thin ones with velcro seat pads. (I take out the seat pad to give me more head room, and more feel of the road). They work well for 6 point harnesses and 3 point. I use them for street and track. Got them briefly used for a reasonable price. Can't remember how much.

Paul902 · 02-09-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavlino

Hey Paul you are more then welcome to test sit our car. As far as a test drive well you will have to do some sweet talking to Helena before that will happen

Not likely, then, since she's already seen me drive....

tmario · 02-09-2007, 01:36 PM

Hi all,

From my perspective as an infrequent, but still passionate DE participant, I would echo what some here have said about "either bone stock, or full race". I have a harness and HANS (which needs a harness of course) and was getting the seats. However, I will not likely put in a roll cage in my car as I do not think it is safe for street use (90+% of my miles) and am not sure how practical it would be to install/uninstall for DE events. That said, the cage is not part of "requirement", but the communication from my region (Metro NY) seems to imply that if you have harness but no cage, an instructor won't ride with you. Perhaps I just do not know the facts, but I do feel safer with a harness and HANS! [side question: Where can one find the facts regarding harness +cage/no cage risk?]

In the end, these changes will likely lead me to skip the DE's which is unfortunate. In the end, this seems like a pure liability thing - is that the right read?

Mario

02-08-2007, 01:44 PM	#33
Paul902 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ottawa, Ontario Posts: 799	Thanks all who replied about race seats fitting with OEM belts. That gives me enough options to think about. Carm, a trial would be great, then I could even compare how I fit into those two seat styles. Maybe you'd let me test if you car feels faster than mine because of the seats.... __________________ Paul902 I AM LISTENING...

02-08-2007, 09:10 PM	#36
Ed Newman Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Long Island , NY Posts: 1,448	I'm glad to see PCA starting to take safety more seriously. As for NASA, I am not sure of changes in their DE program, but they have the strictest standards around for club racing, requiring a full cage with DOUBLE door bars and either a center net or halo seat. I wish PCA would follow for club racing, I have and continue to be a critic of the lax safety regulations in PCA club racing. __________________ Edward Newman PCA National Certified Instructor & Mentor Racing in NASA GTS4 and PCA in J, I mean GTB or is it... I don't know, where ever they put me this year. 2007 Porsche 997S Coupe 2003 Porsche 996 C2 X51 Race Car 2008 Ford F-450 Dually 2003 Baja 36' Outlaw 2x HP525EFI 199 & 2000 Kawasaki Ultra 150 Jet Skis

02-08-2007, 11:33 PM	#38
Bob Rouleau Administrator Still plays with cars. Lifetime Rennlist Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Montreal Posts: 9,013	Pete - I have a question. In our region I have insisted that people using a harness bar and stock seats (no holes) with a harness wear the factory three point belt over the harness. That way if the harness slips down (known to happen) the factory belts prevent to occupant from sliding forward. Is this solution acceptable? Best, __________________ ..Bob Frozen North Rep & ceramic rotor roaster Hey, wait for me! racing.

02-09-2007, 09:46 AM	#43
speedread Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 415	I use GT3 seats. the thin ones with velcro seat pads. (I take out the seat pad to give me more head room, and more feel of the road). They work well for 6 point harnesses and 3 point. I use them for street and track. Got them briefly used for a reasonable price. Can't remember how much. __________________ Sold:'2000 996 C2 with 997s 3.8 L engine, AIM DAta System; full roll cage, etc. Porsche National DE Instructor

02-09-2007, 01:36 PM	#45
tmario Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Long island, NY Posts: 103	Hi all, From my perspective as an infrequent, but still passionate DE participant, I would echo what some here have said about "either bone stock, or full race". I have a harness and HANS (which needs a harness of course) and was getting the seats. However, I will not likely put in a roll cage in my car as I do not think it is safe for street use (90+% of my miles) and am not sure how practical it would be to install/uninstall for DE events. That said, the cage is not part of "requirement", but the communication from my region (Metro NY) seems to imply that if you have harness but no cage, an instructor won't ride with you. Perhaps I just do not know the facts, but I do feel safer with a harness and HANS! [side question: Where can one find the facts regarding harness +cage/no cage risk?] In the end, these changes will likely lead me to skip the DE's which is unfortunate. In the end, this seems like a pure liability thing - is that the right read? Mario __________________ 2007 997GT3RS (Halloween!) 2005 Ferrari 575 SA 2004 Ferrari CS 1997 AS 993TT (gone) 1893 Ferrari 512BBi (gone)