MTosi

Let me preface this by saying as you can probably see from my avatar (that was the attitude of the car on every corner) I did had a rather enjoyable time doing it (and I never did a 360, just one 180) especially considering I drive with oversteer to begin with......

I currently don't have a car, but a friend was kind enough to let me drive his 88 carrera (100% stock, with 10 year old street tires) last weekend at an auto X at ft devens (before you say this doesnt relate to the tack etc. this was run on an old AFB including taxi ways, the runs are 1:20 long and an average of 50-70mph with every type of corner imaginable, so you can get the idea of the handling of a car in a hurry). Anyway to get on with it, I'm used to 944's (NA, S2's, Turbo's), and as a general trend they tend to oversteer, however it's relatively predictable, and you can nail them down with a little correction and a little throttle. With the 911 you need to sub little for LOTS, I knew what I was getting myself into so it was no suprise, but the 911 certainly did live up to its reputation. The other thing I found is you cant get lazy and point the car with the throttle, it works, but it isn't fast.

Enjoyable things about a 911-
Lots of oversteer
Car points very well at highspeed
You can use that pendulum in the a** end under braking to get the car set for the corner

Non enjoyable things about a 911-
Feeling as if your right foot is on a landmine that triggers when you take your foot off
Low speed understeer
that pendulum in the a** end once it gets going the way you don't want it to

Point being, however much fun it is to drive, why would you want to subject yourself to having to constantly being on a knife edge during a race, just waiting for the tail to step out on you? I suppose if you aren't pushing that hard it shouldn't matter that much. That being said, if one gets out of the throttle too much, whether they are pushing hard or not it can still bite them. I think what I'm just trying to say is, why this infatuation with racing the 911? So many cars just do it better and easier. If one is driving them because they like that type of handling, I fully undersand that since I am one of those people. I also have seen the way alot of people drive, and the 911's style is definitly not suited to them (many people may claim they like oversteer, but when you watch the way they drive, that is not the case, people like and drive with that comforting feeling of understeer, whether they realize they are driving with it or not) However if I was going out with the goal of winning a race (not just the enjoyment of driving) and had a choice between say a 911SC and a 944S2, I'd take the S2.

Ohh and I beat the owner (has autox'd and tracked pretty much every weekend for the last 4 years, lest you think he's new to it when you read by how much) by 4.3 seconds, not bad for not having run one in 8 months, guess I won't have anything to drive next time, I need to stop violating the cardinal rule of not beating the owner, thats probably why I never have anything to drive

schvetkaaks

Sounds to me like that car is simply not setup well. There's no way it would have THAT much oversteer - time to take that to a race shop and/or alignment shop and get it dialed.

MTosi

I'm simply talking about the 911's general tendencies which are magnified by the fact the car is stock and on street tires. The car is setup fine, which is stock (oops shouldn't say that, my dads shop would be the shop he'd take it to get it setup), no need to spend more money on it, I was having just a much fun if not more fun than the guys with setup cars and sticky tires. Plus was almost as fast as 3 and faster than the other 12.

38D

You have to drive a 911 by the book, else it will bit you. If you had a hard time with it, then you needed to adjust your driving style to the car, as you may have picked up some bad habits from the 944s.

DrJupeman

Hey, if you can't handle a 911, don't sweat it, many others couldn't hack it, either...

Seriously, it sounds like this car has issues and your driving style/approach may be wrong for a 911. In an autocross setting I would expect the car to be more annoying for understeer than oversteer. 911s actually have mountains of rear end grip and if used properly can be advantageous.

I suppose we can go on about the platform setup. Few will argue that the best layout for a race car is mid-engined, but there is a reason that 911s have been winning races for 40+ years and continue to do so today...

Also, if you had issues with 911s, try a mid-engine car next and the scenery might come whizzing around pretty quickly, too.

As Colin points out, I've seen more than one person pick up bad habits by driving a 944 car (which is a big compliment to the 944 platform).

David K.

Get a Lexus

MTosi

Did we read the thread or miss the point of it entirely.....I didn't spin.....I beat the owner whose been driving 911's for many years by FOUR seconds on a minute long course and beat ELEVEN other 911 drivers in my first time ever in a 911. I didn't have a problem, or bad habits, and wasn't complaining, I was simply questioning why if you were trying to win races why you would choose a 911.....Nor am I bashing the 911 it happens to be my favorite car.....

Rassel

because you want to win?

DrJupeman

No, but given that you say the avatar was the attitude of the car in every corner, I'd say you were driving poorly if your goal was a good lap time. The fact you beat the owner and others just speaks to the field, imo. Sliding is fun, but isn't fast.

(Also, I was joking with the sentence you quoted. That's what the wink means.)

MTosi

What you cant see is that the next corner is to the right of the car......or the left of the picture, right where I am headed

Gary R.

College student?

MTosi

Obviously.....

you caught me mid edit.......

edit: also one that got up at 6 to go to work......so don't expect someone who is very coherent

Gary R.

Gotta be fast both on and off the track Mike!

DrJupeman

Eh, I'm not following. If the next turn is to the right of the car (left in the picture), why are your wheels pointed sharply left?

Honestly, I didn't mean to bring this thread down to this level. My reaction was to comments re: 911 handling characteristics that seem more a driver-and-car problem from the info posted than a car platform issue.

Do you have any videos of your runs?

MTosi

The MA state troopers usually have something to say about that