PF97s
03-14-2009, 02:43 AM
#16
Race Director
FIrst, IMO, an endurance pad will/should be harder and generate less heat, regardless of the manufacturer. You WILL stop better with the softer pad, but they will also inherently generate much more heat. It's the nature of friction. Pagid yellow is an endurance ceramic pad. Second, I don't know how much ceramic content (if any) is in the PFC pads (97, 01, 06), but they market them as cabon metallic. Based on what I understand, the PFC pads have carbon powder/particles suspended in a metallic matrix - but I've never heard any more detail about what else is in them. The pagid pads (Yellow/Black), on the other hand, are marketed as "ceramic based" - but I don't know what other materials are in them.
Lastly, based on my experience, the PFCs are way softer and way hotter than the Pagids I've run. Even their endurance pad (97) is softer than the Pagid Yellow. In years of driving I NEVER boiled fluid with any Pagid pad. With PFCs I can boil fluid literally every session - 01, 06, or 97. The endurance compound ceramic pads by pagid simply do not overheat (my system) like the PFCs.
-td
Lastly, based on my experience, the PFCs are way softer and way hotter than the Pagids I've run. Even their endurance pad (97) is softer than the Pagid Yellow. In years of driving I NEVER boiled fluid with any Pagid pad. With PFCs I can boil fluid literally every session - 01, 06, or 97. The endurance compound ceramic pads by pagid simply do not overheat (my system) like the PFCs.
-td
I was hoping the Performance Friction PF01 or 06 would be better than the PF97 and produce less heat to the caliper. I loved the feel of the PF97's and the fact that you do not have to bed in the Performance Friction pads.
I find it hard to find a place to bed in the Pagid pads. I change my pads at home and then drive the car 90 miles to the track. I do not really have a place to follow the Pagid bed in process they descride on the Pagid website...I will not go 100 mph+ on public streets and do hard panic style braking...not where I live, too many cars on the road.
Any Pagid bed in tips or maybe the PF01 or 06 would be a better DE pads due to no bed in process?
03-14-2009, 02:58 AM
#17
Addicted Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Where to get them?
OG Racing is one place, and they're a sponsor here. Great guys to deal with.
Flush your brakes of air. Get a motive bleeder ...best $40 you'll ever spend for events, bar none! I would be very surprised if your calipers needed seals ...sounds like air. A proper bleed and some ATE Gold or Blue (and the PFCs) and you are good to go.
Edward
OG Racing is one place, and they're a sponsor here. Great guys to deal with.
Flush your brakes of air. Get a motive bleeder ...best $40 you'll ever spend for events, bar none! I would be very surprised if your calipers needed seals ...sounds like air. A proper bleed and some ATE Gold or Blue (and the PFCs) and you are good to go.
Edward
03-14-2009, 03:30 AM
#18
The 01 and 06 are more agressive than the 97 - which means more stopping power, but also more heat. I don't really get what PFC means by "no bedding needed." As I understand it, you need a transfer layer of pad on the rotor to keep the wear down, and braking force up.
-td
03-14-2009, 04:30 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
I think you have air somewhere in your system. I don't think you should have a very soft pedal in a 997 with SRF and a good bleed. Check your bleed procedure or take it to a shop and have them bleed it. If you are doing it yourself, make sure you get about a quart of fluid out of the system to make sure you flush all the old fluid and debris out. You can do this by measuring how much fluid you are taking out at each caliper.
The 97's will give you much better braking once you get the system bled properly but they are LOUD on the street. You may also want to look at the 06 compound.
Good luck!
The 97's will give you much better braking once you get the system bled properly but they are LOUD on the street. You may also want to look at the 06 compound.
Good luck!
Last edited by Porsche917K; 03-14-2009 at 01:57 PM.
03-14-2009, 11:50 AM
#21
Race Director
03-14-2009, 12:38 PM
#22
Keep in mind that high abrasion at all temps will eat your rotor pretty darn fast...
-td
03-14-2009, 01:25 PM
#23
The procedure for bedding PFC pads is below. You still need to get a layer of pad material onto the disk, and it has to be done in a reasonably controlled way.
http://www.performancefriction.com/p...burnishing.pdf
My issue was "warped rotors", heavy shaking through the steering wheel halfway through the session, due to uneven pad deposits. I had to clean the rotors and re-bed and all was fine.
http://www.performancefriction.com/p...burnishing.pdf
My issue was "warped rotors", heavy shaking through the steering wheel halfway through the session, due to uneven pad deposits. I had to clean the rotors and re-bed and all was fine.
03-14-2009, 01:27 PM
#24
Former Vendor
"No bedding in" is probably one of the most misinformed, unrealistic things out there.
IMO it just isn't true - whatsoever. It is doing things the wrong way......
Recall that when you boil down the bedding-in to the basics you have what amounts to several semi-hard slow-downs followed by 1/4 mile rest periods.
Bed in your Pagids the best you can on the street, and finish it on track on the 2nd lap of your 1st session out.
IMO it just isn't true - whatsoever. It is doing things the wrong way......
Recall that when you boil down the bedding-in to the basics you have what amounts to several semi-hard slow-downs followed by 1/4 mile rest periods.
Bed in your Pagids the best you can on the street, and finish it on track on the 2nd lap of your 1st session out.
03-14-2009, 01:30 PM
#25
Former Vendor
As Tod just basically posted, any sense of a warped rotor on virtually any modern Porsche is nearly always pad deposits.
Objectively speaking, I have to add that the Pagid Yellows are absolute champions at NOT unevenly depositing crap on rotors.
Objectively speaking, I have to add that the Pagid Yellows are absolute champions at NOT unevenly depositing crap on rotors.
03-14-2009, 04:56 PM
#26
Addicted Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
FWIW, (as I had mentioned) I've used the 97s with great success on both my 993 for several years on the track where I was switching back and forth to the OE Textar pads for daily street driving.
The bed-in procedure is very easy and takes no more than a few good hard stops at the track (at track speeds of, say, 80), the cooling for a short spell. Done. Never any uneven deposits.
And when I went back to street prep on Sunday evening afterward, it was just as simple. Get the car up to speed (say 60 on an empty road w/o intersections), then clamp down hard a few times, then cool by driving w/o using brakes (like a fwy for a mile or two). Again, never any undue deposits, never any pulsing, never any issues of any sort in the years I had tracker her. Hope that helps
Edward
The bed-in procedure is very easy and takes no more than a few good hard stops at the track (at track speeds of, say, 80), the cooling for a short spell. Done. Never any uneven deposits.
And when I went back to street prep on Sunday evening afterward, it was just as simple. Get the car up to speed (say 60 on an empty road w/o intersections), then clamp down hard a few times, then cool by driving w/o using brakes (like a fwy for a mile or two). Again, never any undue deposits, never any pulsing, never any issues of any sort in the years I had tracker her. Hope that helps
Edward
03-14-2009, 10:34 PM
#27
Instructor
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In my experience (many years of DE and PCA club racing at the front of the pack) the real factor with brake fade is braking technique. If you're going to jump all over the brakes corner after corner, lap after lap then anyone can get fade. I've used PF97 and have had really good success i.e., lap records and wins. I've had them on a 91 964 C2, E36 M3, 74 911, 85 911 and a GT car and NEVER had an issue. In my (humble) opinion, many DE/racers are far too agressive when braking. There will be a point in your driving evolution where you have an epihpany: less brake, finess braking = faster lap times; controling entry speed and smooth transition (as you lift off brake your hands start turning until you are well into the corner). I almost never find myself pressing the pedal to the floor....I leave that for emergencies and when you really need to go deep to take a fellow competitor. Braking slightly earlier but progressively (and not as hard) with a focus on high entry speed with make you faster because the majority of your effort should be in setting up the corner...the rest is just getting on the gas.
Search Rennlist for a Jackie Stewart UTube video where he expains all of this...the difference between finesse brakers and the others.
I would also do a thorough check as everyone else here said. PF97s should be PERFECT for what you want and will transform your driving experience.
Enjoy the journey.
Search Rennlist for a Jackie Stewart UTube video where he expains all of this...the difference between finesse brakers and the others.
I would also do a thorough check as everyone else here said. PF97s should be PERFECT for what you want and will transform your driving experience.
Enjoy the journey.
03-15-2009, 11:21 AM
#29
Race Director
We have you on here pimpin' Pagid and Seth pimpin Performance Friction...it gets confusing on what pads to buy next!
03-15-2009, 02:32 PM
#30
Former Vendor
I still prefer the Pagid Yellows. They have proven SO trouble free for 99% of the folks out there and are, for me, the ultimate track pad.
I've used them for 4 years on my car, a 514HP 2650 lb Porsche 930:
I've used them for 4 years on my car, a 514HP 2650 lb Porsche 930:
Last edited by TrackDays247.com; 05-05-2009 at 01:57 PM.