angelo1404

I have a 2005 997 that I use for street and moderate (6-10 events a season) DE activity. I have been running OEM rotors and pads, with SRF fluid (flushed and bled religiously). I continually experience pedal fade and rapid rear pad wear. I do realize the 997 PSM has something to do with that.

Obviously, all this is a problem for me. I am looking for a solution without having to upgrade the entire system. I have extensively researched this board and others, with the result being many avenues. I want to try the PF97s, but I don't know what specific application to get for my car.

Help!

ausgeflippt951

Are you talking about the Performance Friction pads? The 97's are a pure race pad; there is only one application to my knowledge.

angelo1404

Yes, Performance Friction pads, compound 97. I have heard and read that this is the perfect pad for DE applications.

Kerrigan Smith

They are a very good DE pad and the perfect compound for that car since they will be less obtrusive with the ABS than some of the other compounds. I am just not so sure you will be as happy with them driving around town? If you were willing to change out pads at events or have a shop do that for you. You could just bounce back and forth from race to street pads.

Jim Michaels

I've used PF 97s on a 911 RSA for about 7 DE seasons, and on a Cayman S for 3 seasons. I've been very pleased with their performance and longevity on both cars. They provide medium torque, are easy to modulate, easy on rotors, and don't require a complex break-in procedure.

Pagid also makes very popular track-worthy pads. You might go to the PFC and Pagid websites and read the descriptions of what each compound offers. Compare the PF 97 with the PF 01, the Pagid Orange with the Pagid Yellow, and then the PFs with the Pagids.

mdrums

I have used PF97's on my 997S at Sebring and I liked them alot. I drive to the track and they work OK on the street but squeal real bad so they would not work well for dailey driving. They do grip better cold than the Pagid RS29 Yellows I have used but this does not sway me as these are stricly track pads.

Edward

I used PFC97s on my stock 993 (i.e. heavy) for about 3 years of time trial ...excellent feedback, decent pad (and rotor) life, no fade. Liked them so much I now use them for my trackmeister, an 82 SC which is far lighter.

But do not use these for street; far too loud and aggressive. Swap back and forth for DE days, and you'll be fine.

FWIW, I read in another thread here that PFC has a new compound out ...might be worth checking out.

Edward

angelo1404

I am willing to swap the pads out for DE days.

For all you PF users, where do you get your pads?

himself

Could you describe your pedal fade? Are you getting good pressure on the pedal, but no braking? Or mushy pedal (ie, boiled fluid)?

If you are experiencing pedal fade due to overheating fluid with SRF already in the system, you will NOT like the 97s. They generate MORE heat that the stock pads which will probably result in more pedal fade.

Currently, my 996 does not like PFC pads (97, 01 or 06). With a big heavy car (like yours) driving "fast" on R-comp tires, I will cook Motul 600 in just a few laps (and I am running solid+dimpled front rotors). I am in the process of upgrading my cooling with GT3Cup (GT2) brake scoops, as well as SRF fluid. We'll see if I can make them work on my car. I may just switch back to Pagids, but I am also contemplating (1) rebuilding the calipers to verify the seals/pistons are still good, (2) duct more air to the rotor, or (3) a larger diameter rotor with caliper spacers. Last on the list is an upgraded braking system.

As for your situation, you should consider an endurance ceramic pad as they generate "less" heat for a variety of reasons. A very popular choice is the endurance Pagid yellow (rs-29 or even RS-19), or the more agressive Pagid black (rs-14).

-td

angelo1404

Any other ideas? I am now officially worried about my caliper seals. What is the best way to check them?

By the way, when the car is idling, I can slowly push the brake pedal almost to the floor. I know this is bad, but what is the cause? Seals, air, low fluid, driver stupidity?

Thanks everybody!

mdrums

Angelo, there is no way you should get out on the track with your brake issue as it is now, mushy pedal all the way to the floor deal...your car will not pass a proper DE tech inspection either. PLEASE for your sake and others on the track and on the public street have your calipers rebuilt, fluid completely flushed. The seal kit per caliper costs around $20 something dollars. I had my 07 997S calipers rebuilt after I over braked a lot at a DE and cooked the seals. I turned my big red S calipers a dark purplish marron and the white Porsche lettering turned from white to black! I have since and am still working on a different brake technique...I learned that threshold braking is not needed on every freakin' lap..ha ha live and learn.
I use Motul600 and either PF97's, and the last set of pads I used Pagid RS29 Yellows. I did not boil the Motul600 fluid and was just as fast if not faster with less threshold braking.

mdrums

The Performance Friction 97 and 01 and so forth are a ceramic compound, so shouldn't they not transfer more heat to the caliper than the Pagid Yellows?

himself

FIrst, IMO, an endurance pad will/should be harder and generate less heat, regardless of the manufacturer. You WILL stop better with the softer pad, but they will also inherently generate much more heat. It's the nature of friction. Pagid yellow is an endurance ceramic pad. Second, I don't know how much ceramic content (if any) is in the PFC pads (97, 01, 06), but they market them as cabon metallic. Based on what I understand, the PFC pads have carbon powder/particles suspended in a metallic matrix - but I've never heard any more detail about what else is in them. The pagid pads (Yellow/Black), on the other hand, are marketed as "ceramic based" - but I don't know what other materials are in them.

Lastly, based on my experience, the PFCs are way softer and way hotter than the Pagids I've run. Even their endurance pad (97) is softer than the Pagid Yellow. In years of driving I NEVER boiled fluid with any Pagid pad. With PFCs I can boil fluid literally every session - 01, 06, or 97. The endurance compound ceramic pads by pagid simply do not overheat (my system) like the PFCs.

-td

TrackDays247.com

Pagids are also a ceramic pad. Please consider the Pagid RS29 pads for your car.
Folks love them and for me as a 'business item' they have proven to be 99.9% trouble free & exceptionally robust - really the perfect brake pad for track use.

Tip: Mark your pad locations for OEM and Pagids for easy re-bedding of both - it will save you about 20% of the pad life.

IMO, you definitely need a trip to a shop as the pedal to the floor could be related to the ABS pump - Definitely cycle fresh fluid throughout the system ('flush') via a pressure bleeder - but I really think something else is at play here...

himself

How far down? How hard are you pushing?

I can push my pedal pretty far as well - not to the floor, but pretty far. With enough pressure, I can get the pedal to move a good ways...

It could just be air in the caliper. You can check the fluid visually by looking in the trunk compartment. If the caliper seals were bad, I would expect you would find fluid on your pad backing plates, or leaking somewhere. Also, your reservoir would (eventually) be low.

Are you bleeding all 8 nipples? What about the clutch valve?

Eventually, the rest of the crew will show back up, they're all out racing this weekend.

-td