ew928

The Golf TDi's had some pretty close racing.
Wonder if they'll run as closely on H. Tilke circuits.

If asked, I'm not sure I can explain why I wake up before 7am to watch qualifying and the race.

MTosi

Same here, it's usually after lap 3-5 when excitment of the start wears off, and I'm like "Why did I just roll out of bed to watch this, on the one morning I can sleep in?"

I think that is the definition of addiction, I guess my complaint is that my dealer needs to start supplying some better product.

ew928

Or cut a lot less 'Max and Bernie' into the product.
Damn those guys are making a mint from F1.
Weren't they just mid-level yokels (apologies to any mid-level yokels out there) in the 80's.

333pg333

Jeez, it's starting to make the Aussie V8's look a whole lot better haha. Good hard racing, plenty of passing, great filmwork, very informative coverage, and not precious.

I'd love to see F1 get back to certain aspects of days gone by, but I doubt that it will ever happen somehow.

The European sedans are good to watch too but the best racing has been the bikes of late.

Flying Finn

I don't think NASCAR or especially GA is a joke but at least to me, speed and driver talent is the essence, "Close racing" isn't everything. For example when comparing ALMS & GA. ALMS has more speed and better talent and that to me is important.
If it isn't and all you want is close racing, as I said, you might just start watching Spec Miatas.

Formula 1 is so friggin' fast and the talent of some of the drivers is amazing. That's why Monaco GP is always worth watching (when you're there, the atmosphere, babes & yachts help too...), there doesn't need to be any passing (obviously I always prefer close racing and passing but that has never happened in Monaco) but watching those guys go through and see the cars change direction is amazing.

Have you ever seen an F1 race in person? If you haven't, you should as that will change the way you see those cars. "Back in the day" (when there was technical DNFs often), I always wondered why do those engined "always" fail but when I saw my 1st ever F1 race in person (Hockenheim), I was amazed they lasted a lap!
The speed and seeing how the cars move around (last year in Monaco when it was wet, watching those guys slide their cars around the harbor area was amazing) in person is something you'll never realize in TV and might not then appreciate those drivers as much as you would when seeing in person.

This is not to criticize, just a little hint how you might help yourself to enjoy more.

I completely agree there is improvement in any racing series (maybe WRC & MotoGP excluded) but it's pointless to just bitch about the current racing and praise the past. Past was great but it wasn't always so great then either.
There's always been politics (Jean Marie come to my mind...) and some times, other problems too like we have now.

WRC & MotoGP "never" fails, they're always awesome. Aussie stuff and FIA GT Prototypes & are great series to watch too.
It's a shame for us here in US that Speed cancelled the WRC program they had few years back, it was awesome.

multi21

If your watching the Monaco race for passing, then your going to be disappointed. Unless it's raining with people sliding off the track there is little passing per se.

But if you appreciate the absolute skill of a driver moving a high powered machine with limited grip around a maze with no room for any mistakes for 1 1/2 hours, then it's a once a year race you have to watch. The level of sustained concentration is unbelievable. I often joke with my NASCAR fan buddies that the only time to watch a NASCAR race is the last 30-40 laps -- everything else is "just putting in time and laps to get to the real racing". Ironically, they agree.

multi21

Mercedes might be brokering a deal to delay the 40 mil. pound budget limit -- at least for a year. Regardless, going from an unlimited budget to 100 mil. pound budget is going to be hard enough for some teams and then going to a 40 mil. pound budget for 2011 is going to be even harder.

Perhaps hardest of all is having these teams/manufacturers open up the books to prove they "only" spent x amount on their racing budget.

Mercedes develops budget cap proposal
28 May 2009


Mercedes' Norbert Haug has developed a possible solution to the ongoing budget cap row as Friday's entry deadline for the 2010 championship looms ever closer. The German manufacturer has put its suggestions forward to the FIA which, in-turn, is contacting all teams for consideration of the 'Mercedes Initiative'.

With Toyota, Red Bull, Renault and Ferrari having threatened to walk away from the sport and with no official agreement announced between the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) and F1 governing body the FIA, the Mercedes-Benz Motorsport vice president put his last-minute idea forward to FIA president Max Mosley.


The 'Mercedes Initiative', contrived by Haug, would involve the following:

- a £100m budget cap for 2010
- in exchange for this, teams must offer assistance to new entrants, such as providing cheaper components and sharing technical advice
- teams must commit to the sport until the end of the 2012 season
- from the start of 2011, a £40m budget cap will be in place


With time running out for teams to make a decision with regards to entering next year's World Championship, the scheme - if put forward at the last moment - would see the current £40m spending limit put back by a year with a significantly higher amount of £100m being allowed for next season. The plan, first mentioned in Monaco's meetings last weekend, has been described to The Times by a source close to Mercedes as 'clarity and certainty'.

ew928

That's why they have much better drinking games.
Pass. Chug.
Pit. Chug.
Dropped wheelnut. Chug.
Crash. JELLO SHOTS!


So what is FIA going to do if someone/corporation "donates" computer time/services to an F1 team when the budget cap is implemented.
And which team will have the best book-cooker. (Ferrari?)

multi21

That's an interesting point. Will we see a type of system like political contributions that are capped at a certain "donation" level. Then that has to be policed and documented.

amaist

Watching F1 in person is a revelation.

The first thing that floors you is the sound. Although now it's a bit gutless, I remember the sound of the 3.5L motors. TV coverage does not (probably can't) transmit it properly. The high frequencies tear up your eardrums and the low frequencies compress your chest. Now you only get the high frequencies but still very impressive. Bring ear protection to the track.

Then there is the speed. Especially if you stick around to see any support races. You realize how absurdly fast F1 cars are. Cornering, braking, acceleration are so beyond any other vehicle you don't care if anyone is passing each other or not.

In the old days of F1 the drivers might have had more titanium in their ***** than in their cars but modern F1 is spectacular to watch in person.

And this is why it will not work. Bernie thinks he is so clever with a spending cap. Hey, it worked for the NBA and the NFL. One thing he missed is that it is much easier to implement a simple salary cap instead of a total budget cap. Nobody tells an NFL team how much to spend on a coaching staff, training facilities, hospitality at the stadium, media relations personnel, etc. etc. Now Bernie and Max are going to chase every invoice for every nut and bolt. What about driver salaries paid by the team sponsor? What about fuel and lubricants supplied by an oil company sponsor? Brake pads? Time in a wind tunnel at a cheaper hourly rate because it belongs to a university?
F1 will turn into a creative accounting exercise instead of a technology showcase.
Mandating materials and technical parameters works better. You can physically inspect those. Auditing books will not work as easily. Forensic accountants are still picking at Enron's carcass. And will keep going for a few more years. I can see Flavio talking to accountants/lawyers already about hiding the real budget from Bernie/Max.

multi21

Andrei,

A couple of points. Your absolutely right about the sound of F1 in person. I've been to 4 different F1 races and it's the sound that cannot be duplicated. Believe me, I've tried with surround systems, amps, HD, etc. It cannot even come close. And it's not just the high revs. In the days before the seamless clutches, the downshifts were absolutely thunderous!!! I'll never forget it.

With regard to the budget cap. The FIA has stated that the 40 million pound cap does not include driver salaries or "hospitality" for sponsors. And I can't image it would cover "travel expenses" as it's not cheap to transport everything across the globe. IRRC, they (FIA) then amended it to not include engine development since that is supposed to be frozen anyway. In reality, we could still be looking at a 150 mil. pound budget if we include all the things that are "not included".

If that is the way any future agreement is to be signed, the big spenders (Toyota, Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull BMW and to a lesser extent Renault) will buy the best drivers leaving the less financed teams like Williams, Force India, and the new teams that applied for 2010 WC to drivers that are "Self Funded" or drivers such as Nelsinho Pinquet.

the flyin' scotsman

During a support race at Magny Cours the Lambos, Ferraris, Vipers etc put on a decent show but when the F1 cars came out the difference was 10x.

The cars flat out through Copse up to Maggots and Becketts at Silverstone is magical.

Personally the F1 cars sounds as they hammered around Imola reverberating through the hillside was best.

The way the whole temporary grandstand moves when all the cars leave the grid just beyond start/finish line in Montreal gives you the shivers for the entire race.

The track at Milan is inside a park and when the F1 cars come out the the Parabolica on to the front straight the wall of air and sound hits you like a ton of bricks.

The old Hockenheim circuit where the cars came into the stadium and then back out into the forest so you sat in relative quiet 'till they came around again ...........the anticipation as to who was where was electric.

If you've never been go to at least one...........you'll never be the same.

As to Williams being suspended; Frank is barely surviving, he had no choice............he needs a new sponsor also now that RBS is pulling out.......hope he survives.

ew928

I've never had the pleasure to see F1 race in person.
But for those old fogeys that remember the movie Tron, I liken the stopping and direction change of these carbon fiber wonders to that of the lightcycles. Zoom zip turn stop.

Sorta physics/inertia defying with the HP/weight and downforce/grip ratios.


Wonder what US companies still have the luxury of buying a sponsorship spot on a US team.

Flying Finn

Completely agree although I thought it was the last 10 laps...



Oh yeah! And there was no mistaking when Ferrari's V12 was coming behind the corner!
And I had the same thing when I first time heard downshifts... It was Damon Hill slowing & downshifting to the second chicane of the old Hockenheim circuit, I though he blew the engine!

But really the change of direction, sheer braking and braking are truly amazing in F1 cars. You get a glimpse of it in Monaco broadcast when they have those close-ups around swimming pool chicanes but when you see it in person, you realize how unbelievable those machines & drivers really are.

Man, you have a way with words, well described!

Anyone arguing how boring F1 is that hasn't seen a race in person needs to shut up, it's like people with no children giving parenting advice.

MTosi

It didn't do much for me... hint, hint, clue, clue