David Murry Coaching at Roebling Roads PCA Club Race
11-20-2009, 09:43 AM
#16
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The program is you fill out a form before the weekend, detailing your driving experience, what you want to work on, etc. David will work with about 5 racers each day.
He meets before the first run group with the 5 of you and then does de briefs after each session, also with the 5 as a group. We found at the Brainerd club race that even though the skill level varied from a relatively new racer to Jerry Greene.....nevertheless all of the participants benefited by hearing what both David had to say as well as what the other participants had to say.
It's fairly amazing what David can tell watching at different corners. He won't get in the car (we don't want that liability in PCA) but will give you individualized feedback.
If you've got data acquistion it's even better.
No, you don't get one on one, exclusive with David but for that you'd have to pay a heck of a lot more than $250 per day per racer.
He's also available during the day simply around the paddock and also before and after the day to talk about car set up. A friend of mine at Brainerd who was an experienced racer with a lot of time at BIR, made two small changes to his car set up based on a short discussion with David. A huge change in lap times resulted but more importantly, the car was much more predictable, which meant better to race.
If you are thinking about doing your first race in the near future, you might want to think about making it Sebring this winter.
Bruce
He meets before the first run group with the 5 of you and then does de briefs after each session, also with the 5 as a group. We found at the Brainerd club race that even though the skill level varied from a relatively new racer to Jerry Greene.....nevertheless all of the participants benefited by hearing what both David had to say as well as what the other participants had to say.
It's fairly amazing what David can tell watching at different corners. He won't get in the car (we don't want that liability in PCA) but will give you individualized feedback.
If you've got data acquistion it's even better.
No, you don't get one on one, exclusive with David but for that you'd have to pay a heck of a lot more than $250 per day per racer.
He's also available during the day simply around the paddock and also before and after the day to talk about car set up. A friend of mine at Brainerd who was an experienced racer with a lot of time at BIR, made two small changes to his car set up based on a short discussion with David. A huge change in lap times resulted but more importantly, the car was much more predictable, which meant better to race.
If you are thinking about doing your first race in the near future, you might want to think about making it Sebring this winter.
Bruce
I am most definitely not complaining about the idea of Murry coaching. I was more stating that the claims of individual coaching and 250/day didn't really align. And I am certain that the same reason is why QwickRick posted his comment as well. He knows how much a good coach costs for individual coaching and it's more than 250/day.
11-20-2009, 10:13 AM
#17
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I think PCA has taken a huge step in the right direction here. With competition from other clubs and attendance down all around sometimes you need to spend a little more to stand out especially here in the south east where you can race as much as you want with PBOC/NASA Fl/ NASA SE.
As some one that has instructed for Skip Barber in the past I will say Skip Barber is just like PCA,PBOC,NASA,Chin......There are some instructors that are awesome, there are some that awful and are only there for themselves. Sometimes you get lucky and wind up a Tom Long or Doug Smith (neither of which teach for SBR anymore) sometimes you wind up with arecent graduate of the school and get well, not much!
I quit SBR because of the politics and the money was not worth it to me, But there are some great guys there. On the flip side of that I have driven with green group students at X club that were better than instructors in the same club. IMO volunteer organizations need volunteers, for profit clubs need volunteers and as the pool gets more shallow the bar gets lowered. I have seen the bar get lowered in clubs from driver must be proficient in XYZ to driver must be safe to solo using traction control.
Brian
As some one that has instructed for Skip Barber in the past I will say Skip Barber is just like PCA,PBOC,NASA,Chin......There are some instructors that are awesome, there are some that awful and are only there for themselves. Sometimes you get lucky and wind up a Tom Long or Doug Smith (neither of which teach for SBR anymore) sometimes you wind up with arecent graduate of the school and get well, not much!
I quit SBR because of the politics and the money was not worth it to me, But there are some great guys there. On the flip side of that I have driven with green group students at X club that were better than instructors in the same club. IMO volunteer organizations need volunteers, for profit clubs need volunteers and as the pool gets more shallow the bar gets lowered. I have seen the bar get lowered in clubs from driver must be proficient in XYZ to driver must be safe to solo using traction control.
Brian
11-20-2009, 01:13 PM
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Circuit Motorsports, perhaps we are disagreeing over nuances but frankly, David Murry does give each driver who signs up for the individual coaching sessions individual attention.
This is not a classroom session where an instructor stands up and says "entering turn 4 your car should be 6 inches from this crack in the track"
Rather, the individual coaching participants meet as a small group and David gives each and every one of them individual feedback as to what they were doing in the particular corner he was just at observing the group. The group then goes out for the next practice or qualifying or race or whatever was on the schedule, David observes, takes notes, and then does the next de brief. At Brainerd, for instance, David did six sessions with each group, an intro, and five debriefs.
Yes, this isn't truly private, in the sense that it isn't one on one, but it's about as close to one as one as can be reasonably achieved.
With that said, frankly, many of the participants have said that the discussions with the other drivers and the comments by the other drivers was also very helpful.
I'm sure that David can meet with a racer privately, if the racer has a specific question, for instance "Racer X is blocking me in turn 5, where I think I could pass him, how do I deal with that" but, as you've correctly pointed out, truly private coaching is very expensive. You'll note I did not say "individual" as I believe we are providing "individual" attention, its just not private.
From my reading of the comments on the forum, all are agreed that David is a heck of a racer and a great coach. Also, all are agreed that this is a very positive step for PCA club racing. Now the question is "Who is in for coaching at Roebling" and "Who will be in for coaching at the 48 Hours of Sebring"?
This is not a classroom session where an instructor stands up and says "entering turn 4 your car should be 6 inches from this crack in the track"
Rather, the individual coaching participants meet as a small group and David gives each and every one of them individual feedback as to what they were doing in the particular corner he was just at observing the group. The group then goes out for the next practice or qualifying or race or whatever was on the schedule, David observes, takes notes, and then does the next de brief. At Brainerd, for instance, David did six sessions with each group, an intro, and five debriefs.
Yes, this isn't truly private, in the sense that it isn't one on one, but it's about as close to one as one as can be reasonably achieved.
With that said, frankly, many of the participants have said that the discussions with the other drivers and the comments by the other drivers was also very helpful.
I'm sure that David can meet with a racer privately, if the racer has a specific question, for instance "Racer X is blocking me in turn 5, where I think I could pass him, how do I deal with that" but, as you've correctly pointed out, truly private coaching is very expensive. You'll note I did not say "individual" as I believe we are providing "individual" attention, its just not private.
From my reading of the comments on the forum, all are agreed that David is a heck of a racer and a great coach. Also, all are agreed that this is a very positive step for PCA club racing. Now the question is "Who is in for coaching at Roebling" and "Who will be in for coaching at the 48 Hours of Sebring"?
11-20-2009, 05:35 PM
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This is an offering from PCA to provide more value and GREAT opportunity. If anyone doesn't think you can get your $250. worth, they shouldn't sign up. For everyone else, this is an opportunity like cash for clunkers. This case the government is being replaced by PCA, the participants...the clunkers and David will work with you to make you better in a small window that can provide the right info you need to become a better driver. Most people will spend more than that on fuel to get to the race weekend.
11-20-2009, 09:30 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Qwickrick, I'm not quite sure what you mean by your question. $250 per day is a heck of a deal for one on one coaching, even if the coach doesn't get in the car nor does the coach devote his entire day to working with you.
The other way to look at it is what do you spend for registration fees for a day's DE or on tires?
I guaranty David will make you a better driver during that day. Note I didn't say "faster" but certainly "better"
The other way to look at it is what do you spend for registration fees for a day's DE or on tires?
I guaranty David will make you a better driver during that day. Note I didn't say "faster" but certainly "better"
I was suggesting that $250.00 per day was incredibly inexpensive.....$250.00 is not even a "rounding error" on what it costs me for a season and I know the current rate for professional coaching...as I've
been using one for the past two seasons. Coaching has been the best money I've spent on this sport/more bang for the buck than a new set of Hoosiers
11-20-2009, 09:39 PM
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Funny how people are willing to spend a fortune for their race cars, but are reluctant to spend any money to learn how to drive them properly......
I guess they are all better drivers then myself......
I spent some time with Dave Murry this August at T-bolt one on one......best money I ever spent.......
I guess they are all better drivers then myself......
I spent some time with Dave Murry this August at T-bolt one on one......best money I ever spent.......
11-21-2009, 12:34 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Scott Leder (Speed Secrets) has coached me for the past two seasons/besides making me a better driver, his coaching skills have made me a better instructor.
Having David Murry's help to develop racing skills is a steal at $250/hope he gets up north for some of our Club Races.
Having David Murry's help to develop racing skills is a steal at $250/hope he gets up north for some of our Club Races.
11-22-2009, 01:29 PM
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As the Race Chair for the Brainerd event, I can tell you that the Coaching program was a great addition to the event overall. We had an incident free weekend which I attribute, in part, to the David Murry Minutes at each Driver's Meeting just getting everyone to stop and think about their driving for a few minutes more than they may have without his expert advice.
The driver's who did the "individual" coaching all agreed that it was beneficial overall to do the debrief in the small group of five. This is primarily because everyone has similar questions, issues, and observations. Driver "B" learned from David's answer to Driver "A". It was felt that five was about the right number to keep it intimate enough and yet cover a lot of ground.
The process of observing the car and driver from the corner works remarkably well. No doubt some of this comes from decades of watching competitors looking for a competitive edge. He also gets to compare your approach vs. all the other cars on the track.
Lot's of great little nuggets - like before qualifying he told the drivers meeting, "Focus on doing your best lap, not your fastest lap. By defination, your best lap is your fastest lap." The focus becomes quality, not quantity.
Roger
Put the Loonacy Club Race on your calendar now - July 31, August 1, 2010
(Assuming Steward B gives us the nod for the 18th time <G>.)
The driver's who did the "individual" coaching all agreed that it was beneficial overall to do the debrief in the small group of five. This is primarily because everyone has similar questions, issues, and observations. Driver "B" learned from David's answer to Driver "A". It was felt that five was about the right number to keep it intimate enough and yet cover a lot of ground.
The process of observing the car and driver from the corner works remarkably well. No doubt some of this comes from decades of watching competitors looking for a competitive edge. He also gets to compare your approach vs. all the other cars on the track.
Lot's of great little nuggets - like before qualifying he told the drivers meeting, "Focus on doing your best lap, not your fastest lap. By defination, your best lap is your fastest lap." The focus becomes quality, not quantity.
Roger
Put the Loonacy Club Race on your calendar now - July 31, August 1, 2010
(Assuming Steward B gives us the nod for the 18th time <G>.)
