Old school string or new school 3D alignment
06-29-2010, 11:30 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
You also have to be very careful when using the string system that you don't have any bent wheels. Most of the 4 wheel computerized systems will compensate for wheels that are slightly bent. When trying to set toe to a tolerance of 1mm it doesn't take much a bend in a wheel to create an error with the string system. If you are running a car with lots of rubber bushings etc. just "set toe with a stanley and go!".
06-29-2010, 03:33 PM
#18
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__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
06-29-2010, 04:54 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
+1 on the speed issue. if your good with manual alignments you can get real close the computerized systems just make doing the job fast not that much more accurate for racing purposes. I am in the process of learning this craft to I can take it with me to the track, I want the ability to change it myself.
06-29-2010, 04:59 PM
#20
Race Director
Yes the jack stand method works, but it is a pain. The set-up time is just too long. I will be creating a homemade way to mount strings the chassis.
06-29-2010, 05:13 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
For those that don't know, the "strings" method is for measuring toe. You're creating lines along the side of the car that are parallel to the centerline so you can measure the distance from the string to the front and rear of the rim. The difference in these 2 measurements is toe.
For the home/track alignment enthusiast, camber is measured with a bubble (or electronic) level.
And caster is measured with a level that's set while the wheel is turned a specific number degrees, then measured when the wheel is turned the opposite direction.
When using levels, it's super critical that your garage floor, or whatever surface, is perfectly level. My floor is not level, so I use 1/8" thick vinyl tiles from Home Depot to put under the wheels... I've used a "water level" (a bucket of water, a hose and a ruler) to figure out how many tiles I need under each tire.
There are a bunch of youtube videos on home alignments, too.
For the home/track alignment enthusiast, camber is measured with a bubble (or electronic) level.
And caster is measured with a level that's set while the wheel is turned a specific number degrees, then measured when the wheel is turned the opposite direction.
When using levels, it's super critical that your garage floor, or whatever surface, is perfectly level. My floor is not level, so I use 1/8" thick vinyl tiles from Home Depot to put under the wheels... I've used a "water level" (a bucket of water, a hose and a ruler) to figure out how many tiles I need under each tire.
There are a bunch of youtube videos on home alignments, too.
06-29-2010, 05:27 PM
#23
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Gallon size ziplock bags with a small amount of the spray lube of your choice sealed up inside make great no mess disposable slip plates. Use on three of four wheels. Why only 3? Do all four and watch your car flop off the scales. Besides you need to do three to prevent binding.
07-02-2010, 03:36 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
07-02-2010, 06:30 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
I beg to differ with the person who said "strings are not wrong". We used strings on our GA Rolex Porsches and you can definately set up the strings wrong. Even if they are correct, I have seen many errors made by incorrectly reading the ruler. I have trained myself (I only use strings in my shop, no budget for a good alignment machine) to read the rear lip then move to the front. I have seen so may people just pick a side and then read the other. Before you know it you've gone the wrong direction and don't realize it. By starting on the rear lip, you know the front measurement needs to be in larger if you want toe in, and smaller if you are going for toe out. If you use strings, I recommend picking a pattern and staying with it.
If you get in a real pinch, feel free to copy my design (I do own Smart Strings which work much better).
If you get in a real pinch, feel free to copy my design (I do own Smart Strings which work much better).
07-02-2010, 07:35 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I own a Hunter machine, have my own calibration equipment for it, calibrate it at least weekly, use it daily and have never put a car on it that had been "strung" that was close to what the "stringer" thought it was.
There's a place for strings, you can't bring a bench to the track. I do believe that guy's like Jerry and Larry can get a car better with strings then a guy on an out of calibration machine (most are). The reason I bought my own calibration equipment for my machine is you'd go broke have the Hunter rep out every week ($250 per visit) which is why most are out. I guess the answer here is the operator of the tools whether they're strings and 2x4s or a 75k Beisenbarth machine
There's a place for strings, you can't bring a bench to the track. I do believe that guy's like Jerry and Larry can get a car better with strings then a guy on an out of calibration machine (most are). The reason I bought my own calibration equipment for my machine is you'd go broke have the Hunter rep out every week ($250 per visit) which is why most are out. I guess the answer here is the operator of the tools whether they're strings and 2x4s or a 75k Beisenbarth machine
07-02-2010, 11:20 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I own a Hunter machine, have my own calibration equipment for it, calibrate it at least weekly, use it daily and have never put a car on it that had been "strung" that was close to what the "stringer" thought it was.
There's a place for strings, you can't bring a bench to the track. I do believe that guy's like Jerry and Larry can get a car better with strings then a guy on an out of calibration machine (most are). The reason I bought my own calibration equipment for my machine is you'd go broke have the Hunter rep out every week ($250 per visit) which is why most are out. I guess the answer here is the operator of the tools whether they're strings and 2x4s or a 75k Beisenbarth machine
There's a place for strings, you can't bring a bench to the track. I do believe that guy's like Jerry and Larry can get a car better with strings then a guy on an out of calibration machine (most are). The reason I bought my own calibration equipment for my machine is you'd go broke have the Hunter rep out every week ($250 per visit) which is why most are out. I guess the answer here is the operator of the tools whether they're strings and 2x4s or a 75k Beisenbarth machine
Yo TIMMY LYNN!!!
Cya tomorrow Dan, I'll have Ninja make a special Marguerita just for you!
07-02-2010, 11:45 PM
#28
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Obviously with either method, there is no compensating for operator error.
07-03-2010, 08:14 AM
#30
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Very interesting points there, Dan, about calibration! Good to hear you're doing it right!
It's so often so hard to farm it out and be certain those hundreds are going to get a truly good setup... part of why I just DIY now...
It's so often so hard to farm it out and be certain those hundreds are going to get a truly good setup... part of why I just DIY now...