Coaching Student with AWD
10-05-2010, 03:37 AM
#17
GT3 player par excellence
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I've been at one event where three rolled in one day. I've only been present for one Evo/STi rollover at Willow Springs, though -- the driver cracked a vertebrae and messed up her hand, which came out during the roll.
They're capable cars, but they can reinforce some bad driving habits in a way that leads to a wheel or two going off -- and then trouble.
Two weeks ago I drove the new C4, though, and it was very relaxed. The driver wouldn't let me turn off the PSM. That made it even more relaxed. The 997's are well-engineered, suspension-wise.
They're capable cars, but they can reinforce some bad driving habits in a way that leads to a wheel or two going off -- and then trouble.
Two weeks ago I drove the new C4, though, and it was very relaxed. The driver wouldn't let me turn off the PSM. That made it even more relaxed. The 997's are well-engineered, suspension-wise.
when are you going to come up again so i can learn your lines. and make sure that BIG wing is not moving left and right scaring me
10-05-2010, 10:15 AM
#18
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Nothing really that special to do, Mike. Make sure they don't trailbrake. Instead of getting weight on the front so that the rear end rotates, it will just overload the front tires and make it understeer more. Only other thing is that when they are ready, make sure they start getting into power hard. Most ease into the throttle too much when you don't need to.
10-05-2010, 11:06 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
First its important to let the student know that just because they have AWD that there is nothing wrong with them, they are just different and not to be ashamed of it. Even though they have AWD, they can become productive members of the driving community...
Oft times the AWD student may be somewhat inhibited by the fact that AWD is often affected by additional issues that accompany AWD,such as PASM, ABS and most noticably turbo supercharging and its debilitating effects. It is important to identify these side effects as soon as possible, as they can mask latent problems with basic motoring skills...
Event though your student may be struggling with the effects of AWD, you can overcome most of this disablity by talking slowly and loudly, and repeating the phrase, "more gas... more gas..." it is equally important to develop a comprehesion of the term "both feet in" generally spoken with a firm and steady, yet urgent voice...
Once your student has understood their AWD and its implications on their motoring future, they will begin to understand how to live with this condition, and how it may affect them and those around them...
I hope this has been helpful for you to develop the basic skills and sensitivity that it takes to compassionately understand and help your student affected by AWD...
Oft times the AWD student may be somewhat inhibited by the fact that AWD is often affected by additional issues that accompany AWD,such as PASM, ABS and most noticably turbo supercharging and its debilitating effects. It is important to identify these side effects as soon as possible, as they can mask latent problems with basic motoring skills...
Event though your student may be struggling with the effects of AWD, you can overcome most of this disablity by talking slowly and loudly, and repeating the phrase, "more gas... more gas..." it is equally important to develop a comprehesion of the term "both feet in" generally spoken with a firm and steady, yet urgent voice...
Once your student has understood their AWD and its implications on their motoring future, they will begin to understand how to live with this condition, and how it may affect them and those around them...
I hope this has been helpful for you to develop the basic skills and sensitivity that it takes to compassionately understand and help your student affected by AWD...
10-05-2010, 12:31 PM
#20
Race Director
Thread Starter
Nothing really that special to do, Mike. Make sure they don't trailbrake. Instead of getting weight on the front so that the rear end rotates, it will just overload the front tires and make it understeer more. Only other thing is that when they are ready, make sure they start getting into power hard. Most ease into the throttle too much when you don't need to.
Others I know how to handle the student and teach the student but I am unfamilar with AWD cars on the track so I was looking for a little input. This car is a Volvo AWD.
thanks for the tips....
10-05-2010, 12:41 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
Not sure what other AWD volvo somebody would bring to the track...
Any AWD volvo (AFAIK) is FWD biased (Haldex system) and only transfers power to the rear wheels when it detects slip.
10-05-2010, 01:02 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
S60R - heavy, flailing, beached whale. Only saved by having decent brakes. Eats tires for lunch. And dinner. And snack time.
AWD on the track is remarkable in that it combines all the bad things about fwd with all the bad things about rwd. It's nice in the snow, though.
PHT
('04 S60R street beater mit 130k miles)
AWD on the track is remarkable in that it combines all the bad things about fwd with all the bad things about rwd. It's nice in the snow, though.
PHT
('04 S60R street beater mit 130k miles)
10-05-2010, 01:03 PM
#23
Drifting
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10-05-2010, 01:16 PM
#24
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10-05-2010, 01:27 PM
#25
Race Director
I have instructed in a couple FWD and AWD cars, and here are my opinions :
First and most important thing to know about AWD:
AWD will NOT defy the laws of physics. (Same rule applies to ABS, PSM, PASM, and any other car nanny acronym you want to throw in the mix.)
Second thing to know about AWD:
Weight transfer is weight transfer, no matter where the drive wheels are located on the car. Thus, as with RWD and FWD cars, being smooth on entry is key to help minimize the understeer.
Third thing:
The line is, basically, the line. You may travel through the corner at different speeds in a given section of the corner, and you may apex a little sooner or later based on the driveline layout, but every corner has a turn-in / apex / track out point. I teach this concept regardless of what wheels are powered, and adjust the points based on not only driven wheels, but also driver style and how a given corner is to be driven based on the rest of the course (Remember the type-1, type-2 and type-3 corners?)
We instructors have a wonderful tendancy to over-complicate things for our students. If we'd stick with the fundamentals, things would be alot easier for our students. Then again, maybe if we don't teach them efficiently, they won't be in our mirrors so quickly!
-Z-man.
First and most important thing to know about AWD:
AWD will NOT defy the laws of physics. (Same rule applies to ABS, PSM, PASM, and any other car nanny acronym you want to throw in the mix.)
Second thing to know about AWD:
Weight transfer is weight transfer, no matter where the drive wheels are located on the car. Thus, as with RWD and FWD cars, being smooth on entry is key to help minimize the understeer.
Third thing:
The line is, basically, the line. You may travel through the corner at different speeds in a given section of the corner, and you may apex a little sooner or later based on the driveline layout, but every corner has a turn-in / apex / track out point. I teach this concept regardless of what wheels are powered, and adjust the points based on not only driven wheels, but also driver style and how a given corner is to be driven based on the rest of the course (Remember the type-1, type-2 and type-3 corners?)
We instructors have a wonderful tendancy to over-complicate things for our students. If we'd stick with the fundamentals, things would be alot easier for our students. Then again, maybe if we don't teach them efficiently, they won't be in our mirrors so quickly!
-Z-man.
10-05-2010, 01:39 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Having purchased a 996TT and soon to be a student....this thread is giving me both good advice and a complex! :-)
10-05-2010, 05:53 PM
#28
Race Director
Thread Starter
S60R - heavy, flailing, beached whale. Only saved by having decent brakes. Eats tires for lunch. And dinner. And snack time.
AWD on the track is remarkable in that it combines all the bad things about fwd with all the bad things about rwd. It's nice in the snow, though.
PHT
('04 S60R street beater mit 130k miles)
AWD on the track is remarkable in that it combines all the bad things about fwd with all the bad things about rwd. It's nice in the snow, though.
PHT
('04 S60R street beater mit 130k miles)
10-05-2010, 06:36 PM
#29
-td
10-05-2010, 07:20 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
Wish I had known you were there. I would have liked a chance to meet the infamous VR.
I know a bit about tracking WRX/STIs but since we've established that this car is a Volvo I'll keep mum. I don't think I've ever driven a Volvo of any kind.
I know a bit about tracking WRX/STIs but since we've established that this car is a Volvo I'll keep mum. I don't think I've ever driven a Volvo of any kind.