mdrums

This coming weekend I will have a student with all wheel drive. I've never have a student with AWD...is there anything special I need to know about AWD cars on a track?

Veloce Raptor

They usually understeer.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Larry Herman

As they get faster, they tend to apex earlier and pinch the exit because the car will do that. The result is understeer and some frustration. Get them to understand that they are scrubbing off speed, and that they should stay with a more conventional line so that they can unwind the wheel and accelerate hard out of the corner without all that understeer.

With a standard RWD car you unwind to manage the back of the car. With an AWD you unwind to manage the understeer.

Barfly

Ain't that the truth. And they can cover up damn near any mistake.

Jason

4porsh

If you like, PM me your # and I can give you some info.

Joe

PogueMoHone

Some very accomplished "national" drivers like to dial in a little understeer. They swear it makes them faster. I'll leave it to them to disclose who they are!

Veloce Raptor

I didn't mean "a little".

I like a little understeer on entry & a little oversteer on exit. Not really relevant to an AWD discussion in a DE, really.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

RedlineMan

Hmmm...

Two weeks ago my student at Calabogie had a 996 Twin. Not a good learning car. If yours has a Turbo, you'll likely have to try and keep them from going fast on the straights to learn anything about how to drive the corners. They tend to create point & shoot drivers. Anybody can do that, but they always over brake and never learn how to corner fast. We experienced no understeer or even PSM at all on street tires in wet or dry, which surprised me, and we were going at a pretty decent clip. Impressively capable car. Too capable. My impression was that you would have to go awfully fast to experience dynamic driving at all. Probably too fast for most people to really handle.

If you do experience the understeer thing, which is indeed common on AWDs, you'll likely have to get them to apex later so they have less potential drama at track out. I imagine the newer the AWD system, the less understeer you will have. The 964s were plow pigs. The 997s, probably not so much.

JackOlsen

Understand that it's going to handle more like a FWD car, but -- as much as you can -- teach the driver to maneuver it like a RWD car. If it's an EVO or an STi, there's a reasonable chance that you're going to roll over -- especially if the driver treats it like a FWD car, goes in early, late on the brake and relies on the gas pedal to 'erase' their mistake.

If it's an AWD 911, it's not that huge a deal.

Barfly

Spoken from someone that has seen many EVO/STi rollovers at Willow Springs no doubt.

Jason

beentherebaby

In my experience with a number of AWD vehicles on track, a skilled driver can make the car do whatever you want it too. Typically manhandling the car will induce understeer on tight radius/slow speed turns. Adjusting driving style for best use of tire grip is the fundamental just like with a FWD or RWD vehicle.

Depending on the students experience and skill level, you can gradually work up to the cars potential. Teaching the driver to understand what the tires are doing, the transitions that occur due to the electronics, weight transfer, track surface and layout takes awhile.

Unfortunately on production AWD models the electronics can respond differently from lap-to-lap depending on the available traction and sensors, so this needs to be understood by both the driver and instructor.

fuenfer

mooty

so u did that too.
i coached a STi, never again would i do that. never been so scared in my life. every turn i thought i was going to die.

JackOlsen

I've been at one event where three rolled in one day. I've only been present for one Evo/STi rollover at Willow Springs, though -- the driver cracked a vertebrae and messed up her hand, which came out during the roll.

They're capable cars, but they can reinforce some bad driving habits in a way that leads to a wheel or two going off -- and then trouble.

Two weeks ago I drove the new C4, though, and it was very relaxed. The driver wouldn't let me turn off the PSM. That made it even more relaxed. The 997's are well-engineered, suspension-wise.

J richard

First its important to let the student know that just because they have AWD that there is nothing wrong with them, they are just different and not to be ashamed of it. Even though they have AWD, they can become productive members of the driving community...

Oft times the AWD student may be somewhat inhibited by the fact that AWD is often affected by additional issues that accompany AWD,such as PASM, ABS and most noticably turbo supercharging and its debilitating effects. It is important to identify these side effects as soon as possible, as they can mask latent problems with basic motoring skills...

Event though your student may be struggling with the effects of AWD, you can overcome most of this disablity by talking slowly and loudly, and repeating the phrase, "more gas... more gas..." it is equally important to develop a comprehesion of the term "both feet in" generally spoken with a firm and steady, yet urgent voice...

Once your student has understood their AWD and its implications on their motoring future, they will begin to understand how to live with this condition, and how it may affect them and those around them...

I hope this has been helpful for you to develop the basic skills and sensitivity that it takes to compassionately understand and help your student affected by AWD...