38D

My interpretation of the defensive line is that it would be fine to move to the next apex side when at or near the braking zone. A block would be moving over to the next apex side while still on the straight. At Lime Rock this would translate to any move to the right before start finish would be considered a block. After start finish, its fine. (solely my own opinion).

I am amazed at how many people think moving over at the beginning of a straight is ok. I raced in GTC1 with Scotto, Burger, Savenor, Boyer and Jenks and I can't think of one time of someone doing a driving down the "wrong side of the straight" move. You also don't see this from pro drivers (ok, most pro drivers). Here's a classic one and these guys managed to have an epic battle and not drive down the wrong side of the straight.

paradisenb

That is a great battle with Villenueve. Good hard racing.

DrJupeman

You and I have debated this before. There should be nothing wrong with driving down the wrong side of the track. Whether you do it at the beginning, middle, or end of straight is up to you. Pros drive down the wrong side of the track, witness the RS Spyders vs. Audis back in the ALMS hey-days of 2007-2008. Sometimes good racing is making the guy go the long way around. This sometimes worked for the RS Spyder because the Spyder cornered enough better than the R10s to give up an optimal line and still maintain a competitive corner speed.

Your C1 example is a good one because I would suggest that the vast majority of the field were good to excellent drivers and racers. The cars were also all equal. I welcome someone in an equal car to take a turn-in from the inside of the track. I will over and under you or drive around you in the corner because you will not be able to take that turn effectively. C1 racing didn't involve goofy lines because the racers were too good to keep behind you that way. There was a lot of feinting, dodging, and squeezing. All of that is excellent race craft.

Your F1 video example from 1979 is funny to use in this context because those cars have about five "13" incidents in the final lap. You will also note numerous feints and dodges where the lead car moves slightly off line to defend. Heck, they are driving each other off track in that video!

What I think PCA is trying to eliminate is the danger of someone moving out in front of a car that has a lot of momentum and causing them to take evasive action to avoid rear-ending. But this is where the "one move" concept comes into play. If I see a guy with a run, I should be able to defend against that and choose which side I want them to attempt to use the momentum on. In most cases, if in the beginning or middle of a straight, the car with momentum will just drive by, anyway. Gums showed an example of the feint where he made the car in front defend one way but he went another. We should be able to do that in PCA. We should not be allowed to weave our way down the track attempting to stay ahead of someone.

jrgordonsenior

Great video Colin, thanks for posting.....

At LR the turn onto the staight tracks out left and the apex at the end of the straight is on the right. I can see that moving over across the track after tracking out could be perceived as poor sportsmanship. What if the apex ahead was on the left where you tracked out coming onto the straight. If a racer stayed left all the way down the straight would that change your perspective? I ask because I did just that a few weeks ago at Willow Springs knowing the car behind me, who was in my class, was faster down the long straight. Had I moved over to the RH side of the straight he would have pulled next to me before the apex and passed me. The only way to survive his charge was to take away the inside line from track out. As it was he pulled next to me on the outside and almost passed me there....

fstockcarrera

GTC1 was as good as old F Troop sans Herman, Forester & Westerdiun

Some day again, maybe

gums

I don't even have to watch that classic and epic vid from Dijon, it is etched in my brain.
And if you read this month's "Motor Sport" issue, a tribute to Villeneuve, you saw every driver of that time commenting how hard he drove but how fair and predictable he was. Everyone loved him for it, there was none of this "one move" nonsense. Yet he was still so hard to pass.

Sterling Doc

Hey Frank! :-)

Found this in Villineuve on his performance in a vastly inferior car in the 1981 Spanish Grand Prix:

I'd say "carefully positioning" his car means a defensive line. ;-), but not "blocking" by the description
Certainly a bunch of over slowing.

Astroman

M758

Just had chance to see the video. Blocking? Ha total BS. You were just starting to working at forcing enough of an error to pass him.

Sterling Doc

A black flag is a very big deal. IMO, it should only be used when there is safety issue, or a significant potential for one. Penalties can be assessed post race, where they can be taken back, or modified, if need be. An in race black flag has just ruined the race, weekend, and potentially season of the racer receiving it, and can't be taken back.

Gary R.

^^^^^^^^
This is exactly to the point.

aj986s

X3.

As the 2 cars were in the same class fighting for position, it appeared to me to be good, clean racing. As mentioned, Black Flag should not have interfered with their race; would have been easy to penalize afterwards and sort out with much more info from all parties involved, and impose an appropriate penalty if merited.

Regarding staying on or off line, I think in many cases there's a drafting issue to consider. I'm not an aero expert, but in my own experience, when I've been followed very closely by another car on the straight, as soon as they pop out to pass, I've felt my car slow down briefly, presumably from the air bubble now left behind me that takes a moment to refill/sort out. In equally running cars, IMHO its better to stay behind and close as long as possible. Also, I believe that passing another car also involves getting through its "wake" which may be more difficult than still air. "Popping out" gives the trailing car a brief advantage that may offset the wake challenge.

Streak

+2

It's our club folks. If this is going to continue to be an issue we need to get clarification and let the stewards know we want to race. I can tell you if i travelled 6 hours, took 3 days off of work, paid for tires, lodging, entry fees etc only to have my race cut short for "blocking" that no one else can see I'd think long and hard about where my next entry fee would go. It isn't worth the risk.

gums

If anything comes from this whole debate, it's this.
There should be a way to warn a driver of his tactics without ruining his race.

M758

Had that happened to me it would be simple. No more racing with that organization again. Look if that 12 car wanted to run down the inside of the track so be it. For whatever reason that trailing car had more top speed down the straight, but at least in the early laps the 12 car had a solid lead everywhere else. Since it is two different cars in the same class is likely that even top prep, top notch drivers will make a similar lap time in different way. So I would expect a car to be weaker incertain parts of the track and need to defend a corner a two just to make it to the part they are stronger. All a part of racing.