winders

If the politics have the rules so far out of whack that you can't engineer your way around the handicaps, what are you supposed to do?

Scott

Horus2000

Turbo RSR anyone?

Horus2000

Personally, I think Grand Am would benefit even more than ALMS from a super-GT type class that lets the manufacturers really go at it. Certainly not unlimited $, but take the funding from Daytona Prototypes, which I couldn't care less about, and funnel it into a class that could have some actual application to a road cars potentially.

stuttgart46

How so Scott? How are the rules written so far out of spec that the 911 is out of it's league. Since the beginning, Porsche has read the rulebook and stretched in ways that lead to championships. The passion at Porsche is about making money not about racing. It's been this way for the last decade.

winders

Seriously? There is no set rulebook. Look at the tube-framed cars. Look at the engines in the BMWs. Look at how the power to weight ratios are played with to either speed up cars or slow cars down.

Porsche needs to make money racing. The bean counters keep their eyes on that. But, the engineers involved care more about racing than making money.

Scott

stuttgart46

I agree with you about the engineers and that there are still people there that want to win, however, it's not the people that pulling the purse strings.
If you know that you are going to get beat by a tube framed car and they have been beating you, then why wouldn't you build a tube frame car as well? As for BMW using the V8, they brought that engine out in the M3 street car. A few years ago Porsche protested the V8 M3 when it was using a 6 in their street car. They banned it and BMW didn't come back until they felt like they could do so with the V8. And what a program they have built. They got pissed off and came back with a vengeance.
Again I agree with you in regards to the weight and HP adjustments that can be thrown at these teams from race to race and that can be hard to make adjustments for but the last few years for the RSR have been awful IMHO. Maybe I'm spoiled but I want to see Porsche at the top everywhere they go.

winders

You are being naive. Porsche would not be allowed to build a tube-frame car. Why? Because they don't want Porsche winning. They want the other manufacturers to come play and the only way to do that is limit Porsche.

Scott

ECS

Regarding BMW - It is my understanding that their engine is further back in their race chasis than in their street car. Thus, so is the driver and driver seat. This was done for better balance. Such a change is certainly beyond the intent of the series.

In general I have no idea how the rules should be to pit the engineers of each company against each other while keeping the $ down. F1 is doing it (albeit at a much higher price). Maybe some general limits like power to weight (limiting to non-exotic materials), torque to weight, etc.

Wonder how the ACO does it. Do they constantly make restrictor and weight adjustments during the season?

mglobe

Its just the ebb and flow of racing. Not very long ago Porsche was winning pretty consistently and having epic battles with Ferrari in ALMS. Now the pendulum has swung a different direction, and Porsche is struggling. We've been here before, we'll be back on top, then we'll be here again.

Usually about this time we start hearing how the rear engine car is at it's limit and it's time for Porsche to develop a new platform. I guess you could argue that the 991 is that. I'm betting that the 991 RSR will dominate after a year or so of development. Then rules will change, and we'll be whining about how Porsche's racing efforts are dying.

Is there a yawn emoticon?

bgiere

Winders hit the nail on the head IMHO...one only needs to look at GrandAm...they seem to do everything they can to keep Porsche off the podium.

Leica356

Like calling the race when the leading Brumos car pitted! And that full course yellow for "Debris" they pulled in New Jersey!!!

I would love to see Brumos in ALMS!

MarkM

Brumos will never leave Grand Am because of their long term relationship with Daytona and the France family. Not sure they could afford to do both series, so I doubt if we will ever see them in ALMS.

Lots of politics and $ in rules making and we will never be able to change that.

MarkM

Oh, and if you want to piece together your own RSR check out this garage sale...

http://www.lizardms.com/usedparts/parts.htm

James Achard

BMW have always been sandbaggers.

When they ran the V8 car ~10 years back they begged the ALMS to allow the car even though the rules stated they had to have a car that was available to anyone as Porsche does. They then promised ALMS they would supply privateers with the same car the following season and then never followed through with their promise. They made sure they had the championship buttoned up for the season so they could claim a victory and then they backed out the following year.

David in Chicago

The problem is even worse than so far discussed.

As long as ALMS and GA are competing for "ownership" of GT racing in the US, neither will ever move to the obvious solution - implement the global GT3 rules. This'd instantly increase the cars available for any race, but would dilute the "control" over the series exercised by ALMS and GA.

(I know, such a change would disenfranchise the RSR in favor of the GT3R, but at least the series would have stable, transparent, and (relatively) uniform rules.)

So, just as was the case in open-wheel racing during the ultimately destructive "IRL vs. CART" era, the fans are screwed out of the best possible show because the rulesmakers all want to be king.