race911

Well, we didn't for 4-5 years from 2004 (the last promoted "pro" race at Laguna). And look how PRC flourished. Basically four classes--the GT "spend" class (except for tires, of course), GTL where you ended up, Spec 911, and Spec 944 eventually was brought in from NASA-At-Large. Sure, you've go the odd Stefanowicz going off and hiding from everyone, a handful of Cups (modified or stock), some small engined/low budget GT cars that can kind of run among themselves, and a few Spec Boxsters. Makes for a pretty good time when you consider there's zero PCA overhead to deal with--just pay your entry to NASA and go race.

Steward B.

Zero PCA overhead?
What do you mean by that?

race911

I think we addressed this before. How much in National personnel is now/still required to hold a club race? Compared to NASA where a PRC entrant pays the entry fee; and other than a couple of guys like Masuo doing his thing on the admin level, and a couple of other gracious shop owners handling tech/scrutineering there's no financial risk.

Steward B.

The host region or zone pays hotel room and provides food for the national staff. PCA national pays for all travel costs, car rental, parking, etc. The risk for the host region is principally track rental, corner workers, ambulance, etc, as would be borne by any race organizer.
My bet is that compared to a NASA race, you will get significantly more track time at a PCA cr.

jdistefa

I think part of the challenge for the Mosport race remains the potential for significant hassle at the border - which is a shame

230ERACER

Guys, I live in Buffalo and my golf CC is in Canada and my second favorite track, WG being first favorite, is Mosport.....point is, the border is an absolute no brainier....I have a race car, no title, no paper work, Canadians love racing and they have never questioned my travels up to Mosport. We have hundreds of racers coming in both directions of the borders, dirt trackers, sport car racers, all kinds and all levels, get your butts up here....these guys do a great job and the test and tune the day before is to dye for.

For the matter of numbers in class, build and "F" car...we have some unbelievable racin among us guys, Cory, Lou, Lee, we have had some great racin, last year at Mosport "F" class was nose to tail every lap....

Can't wait to see everybody....

Charles A. Toupin

We need more guys like you Wayne

c.

Dan Jacobs

If Border crossing is any issue just contact the Mosport people. They have a bond posted with Canadian
customs. Once you have a copy of that the whole thing is a non issue
I didn't know about this til last year, it made a world of difference

GT3 Techno

Documents available on Club Registration.

Bryan_H

Masuo does a good job and is a straight shooter in my dealings with him. I suspect this post is not what he is about. I think your comments are your own and do not represent PRC. Is the word "troll" accurate here? Who is the "we" that "addressed this before"?

You talk about PRC races with NASA. You mention Masuo Robinson and a couple of techs being required. For a race the size that PRC runs with NASA PCA would have one Steward, one Scrut and one Timing Tech from National. The local region would supply the other volunteers. The numbers look similar with NASA taking care of the same work the PCA region does. Unlike other organizations but similar to PRC no one in PCA makes a profit. The track time is not comparable. Check it out.

The thread subject is concern about a low initial turn out for Mosport and some folks turn that into PCA bashing and point out how good it is in other organizations.

A few facts:

Mosport is at 43 today and it will finish higher with two weeks to go.

According to the NASA web site showing Northern California, which is what you are touting, the number of PRC plus 944 spec starters at Infineon and Thunderhill, which is all that are listed, In the order of, March, April, May and June sprint races for 2012, Saturday and then Sunday sprints are: 43 - 39, 31 - 30, 34 - 23, 39 - 34. The 43 at Mosport doesn’t look that bad.

PCA racing is indeed up in 2012. That is another subject.

Bryan

winders

Bryan,

I am not sure what Ken is talking about as I am new to the PRC and have not discussed this on Rennlist before.

My comments were in no way intended to be derogatory to the PCA. I was trying to explain why I think there is a lack of turnout at some of the PCA Club Races here in California. My perception is that it is a funds/time issue causing racers to give preference to their PRC/POC series races.

I certainly don't want to be the cause of any issues between the PRC and PCA!

Scott

Astroman

Bryan, first let me say that I think you all do a great job and I love racing with PCA.

But I am concerned about the sustainability of many of the races that I currently attend. I do 4-6 races a year: Atlanta, Watkins Glen, Putnam, Mid Ohio, Road America, and CMP.

Atlanta: registration was sluggish this year and the organizers were reportedly close to condensing it down to two race groups (from 3) while adding a second DE group.
Watkins Glen: obviously a HUGE race.
Putnam: the organizers sent an email asking for 80 racers. There are currently 48 signed up. Maybe 60 total will attend? Isn't it true that there used to be TWO Putnam PCA races each year?
Mid Ohio: even during my brief racing career, this used to be a big race. With participation relatively low the last two years, MOR moved the race to August. Hopefully this will put this race back "on the map."
Road America: obviously another one of the biggies.
CMP: the future of this race also seems to be up in the air. Despite the Carolina Region's best efforts, participation the last few years has been weak.

And then as I mentioned above; VIR, Mosport, and even Daytona have struggled as well. I can only imagine how much it costs to rent Daytona for the weekend...

The "big" races (Sebring, Watkins Glen, and Road America) are as big as ever, but it seems like the smaller races are struggling. Is this true? Or are these smaller races actually meeting their required registrations to survive?

race911

"We" is Steward B and I having a discussion a couple of years ago regarding who is responsible for what in putting on a PCA Club Race. Which is why I explicitly put the qualifier of "now/still." But either you looked past that, or you want to work my recap of Northern California Porsche racing into a "PCA versus" thing. It's not. But can we agree there has to be an underlying reason why Masuo and Jeff got together in 2001 to run a Porsche race series outside of PCA Club Racing? (Wonderful 10th Anniversary dinner/celebration last year!)

So I was at least fourth in line in addressing participation numbers or the myriad of classes. I specifically addressed a comment about Club Racing solely in Northern California, and my belief on how it came to take a turn down. If anything stated is inaccurate, feel free to correct me.

Now since you called me a troll, we can go into the way-back machine with a bit of my background. I think the first Club Race I attended (sadly, merely as crew) was in 1993. Over the years, I picked Monte Smith's brain about the logistics of the program. We had a few races out here over the years, and I was casually involved in the less-than-successful 2000 Thunderhill race in conjunction with the Sacramento Parade. Then the three Sports Car Invitational "pro" races at Laguna from 2002-4. In 2002 there was a companion GGR Sears Point race; and though I was off the GGR Board at that time, I do not remember there being anything but relief when the financials were settled. But anyone specifically involved can correct me. Also, in 2002 at the Laguna race when the series chair came and raced himself, the guy from New Orleans, I made an effort to query him on the logistics and financials as I saw where PRC was going and PCA was probably being relegated to second-tier status in Northern California. After that 2004 Laguna race I do not believe there were any PCA Club Races in Northern California until 2009.

To wrap this, yes ultimately you can talk participation numbers (the "revival" of Club Racing here has generated a consistent ~25 cars for the past few events), and track time (NASA had the GTS classes, and even the enduro series, but likely you'll find several of the PRC guys not even running the Sunday race).

ZSA Motorsport

miss me some of that F class action. always a hoot. nose to tail and then some..

ZSA Motorsport

we've had no issues at all with border crossing. it requires about as much thought process as you'd give to coordinating your weekend with your kids. its a 30minute efffort and done. we started using an agent to handle all the paperwork, which for like $100, $150 bucks, made it beyond easy. work up a list of items, fax to them, and done.

here was some verbiage that world challenge sent us. we're up here at mosport hthis weekend for world challenge in the, eeeks (porsche guys close your ears)...camaro. its a great handling car, i just wonder how it will get up that hill. its a Long stretch. we shall see.


To: All Pirelli World Challenge Teams, Trans-Am Teams and Playboy MX-5 Teams

From: SCCA Pro Racing

RE: Crossing the Border back into the United States

This represents a general step-by-step instruction and answers regarding the upcoming Canadian Border crossing. Info is provided for large trucks and for tag trailers. Please refer to the instructions for your size race trailer.

53 Foot transporters and Large Totters
1. SCAC
Each participating team is required to have one SCAC –Standard Carrier Alpha Code covering all vehicles in their respective fleets. To obtain the SCAC go to the following website if your team has a USDOT number (printed on the side of your transporter)
www.nmfta.org if you had a SCAC code in 2009, please make sure it is renewed. Contact NMFTA at 703-838-1810 or visit: www.NMFTA.org


2. Inventory
Complete a typed list of items being transported into Canada. If you have more than one transporter each transporter should have a separate inventory list. The inventory should include the make, model, and VIN number for cars and the serial numbers of all items of significant value including the truck and trailer. Make several copies of this list. In addition make one cover sheet that lists a re-cap of your inventory. See the excel document for a sample of a generic manifest.


3. E-Manifest and Trip Number
Everyone will need an E-manifest and Trip ID number for re-entry into the United States. There are two ways to process an e-manifest. One is a free method and one is a service provided by a service provider i.e. NG Jensen. We, (SCCA Pro Racing) have contracted the services of Norman G Jensen. Jennifer Urick is our contact. Jennifer’s direct number is: 810-989-5305 or via email at jurick@ngjensen.com

Ask for Option B. The cost is: a one-time fee of $120 to set up the account and get you into the NG Jensen system and approximately $125 per truck that crosses back into the USA under the SCCA bond. SCCA is billed directly, and will invoice your team after the race. NG Jensen will process the E-manifest and will email it to us while we are in Canada. They will gather all the required data about driver, tractor, conveyance and trailer equipment. If you have more than one transporter please provide NG Jensen information on the second truck and driver as well.

SCCA Pro Racing has posted the bond for ALL SCCA teams and we will charge a fee to come in under our bond. In 2010-2011 the fee was $175 per truck. DO NOT POST A BOND FOR YOUR TEAM.

The Shipment Control Number (SCN) will be a unique number you set up for your team with your team’s SCAC number and a 6 digit code.
Example ABCD000001 and if you have a second truck ABCD000002

To contact NG Jensen:
NG Jensen
3050 Metro Drive, Suite 300
Minneapolis, MN 55425-1545 To download forms : http://forms.ngjensen.com


4. US Customs Form 4455 (Also called certificate of registration)
Complete the Customs form 4455. This is for the US side. Before leaving the USA:,
Please report to US Customs with the 4455 form (you can get the form and your
inventory list stamped at the Duty Free shop at the border) Keep the stamped copy for
re-entry to the US.


5. Please add the following information to Customs Form 4455 (Certificate of Registration):
The B/L or Insured Number box Write your - SCAC Code
Check the box for Use Abroad
Under List of Articles Exported List –Write “See Attached “- This will be your typed manifest of transporter contents
Then list the following:
Responsible Party: SCCA Pro Racing
Date: Your return to the USA date
Port: The port of entry you plan to use for re-entry
Race Team Name & Address
Shipment Control Number SCAC code 000001 (ExampleABCD000001)
Value of Goods – dollar value of your transporter contents

Note: If you have more than one transporter and or vehicle coming back to the US you will need to issue each one a unique Shipment Control Number example ABCD000001, ABCD000002 Fill out a 4455 Customs form for each truck/transporter. This information also needs to be conveyed to NG Jensen.

6. Manifest Express Fax Load Sheet
Complete the attached manifest Express Fax Load Sheet. In the box labeled “Please PAPS label here” Please indicate the Shipment Control Number (SCN) identically to that indicated on the Customs Form 4455.

This can all be faxed to NG Jensen a week in advance of our trip to Canada and provided you have provided arrival time at the US border NG Jensen will email you the ACE Manifest number you need for your truck to get back into the country. Make sure you tell Jennifer Urick at NG Jensen you will be entering under the SCCA Pro Racing Bond.

7. Arriving at the Canadian Border – At the Canadian Customs booth please hand the agent your US Passport , the Mosport Bond and the letter from the Canada Border Services Agency. They will likely ask to see the 4455 (Certificate of registration) and your inventory list.

Have a good trip.

8. Arriving back at the US Border:
When you arrive at the US Border, you must use a commercial lane if you are driving a semi or large toter. Smaller Tag trailers – see the info at the end of this letter.
Hand US Customs the Ace Manifest Cover Sheet ONLY. Customs will either provide instructions or ask for additional paperwork.
Hand Customs the Customs Form 4455. Customs will provide instructions.

SCCA Pro Racing is paying for a continuous bond that will cover all of our race teams and their equipment for our race at Mosport. NG Jensen will invoice SCCA for all of the teams that come in under our bond. SCCA will invoice each team truck the $175 fee for this race to cover the use of the posted bond. This fee also covers your ACE Manifest documents for the border crossing.

Tag trailers and small goose necks
If you have a small tag trailer and can go through the regular passenger car lanes you do not have to go through all of the steps listed above. Just fill out the 4455 and make up an inventory list. Please make sure you list all serial numbers for the car and larger items in your trailer. We do, however, recommend you get your 4455 and inventory stamped. Do not use the commercial lanes when returning to the USA. Instead go through the normal passenger car lanes.

Hand the US Customs agent your 4455 and Inventory list and follow instructions provided by the US Customs agent.

If you have questions please call Dee Duncan at 440-286-6937 or 440-478-1199 or call Jennifer Urick at NG Jensen at: 810-989-5305

Thank you. The SCCA Pro Racing Staff