Thinking about going from DE to Club racing
08-22-2012, 04:48 PM
#16
The Penguin King
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First of all, your sign-off to race will be done by the region's CDI. He will ride with you, and is fully capable of judging if you possess the skills it takes to be safe racing. That is what we look for in signing off on a driver. The CDI will not be trying to determine how you will finish, just that you are capable of finishing safely.
As far as advice, work on being as comfortable as you can be driving at pace while having additional bandwidth leftover to deal with non-normal stuff happening around you. Drive the track imagining there is a car right next to you through three turns. Imagine a car spinning right in front of you. What is your emergency exit option? Say you've put two off. Can you get the car back on track safely? Do you know when you shouldn't try and should just drive off?
Good luck. The MAVPCA folks are a great group, and the racers that come from that part of the world are terrific people.
08-22-2012, 04:53 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Exactly. Hit the nail on the head. Unless I'm out specifically testing I find no need to put needless wear and tear on my car. Plus, unless there is some goal to the session I have a very hard time trying to drive 10/10. Not enough mental involve to continue pushing. Put 15-20 other cars out there and a stopwatch on ya and its like mainlining heroine. Must get my fix!
08-22-2012, 05:11 PM
#18
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i would doubt a CDI in any region will ever sign off a yellow novice student into racing, but, it is an internal MSR business. as of what is self-fulfilling and what is not - life will show.
08-22-2012, 05:13 PM
#19
The Penguin King
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It's different for everyone. I have a great time driving at DE's, and at the same time LOVE racing. Most of the time at a DE I go out with a specific goal for the session/weekend. But sometimes I just go out for the fun of driving. Yes racing is a bigger adrenaline rush, but driving around the track is still fun for me even without the competition.
As far as enjoying racing when you have little chance of winning is concerned, this is the reality for the majority of folks on the track. In most classes there is an elite group that will regularly make the podium. The rest might wish they could, but they know that their race, while it may go on at the same time, is with different people. But they are still racing. I've won races walking away from the field. But honestly that was nowhere near as much fun as I recently had taking a 9th place in SM. I don't know how much fun the winner of that race had, but I know that I had a blast and only finished ninth (so I was eighth loser?).
As far as enjoying racing when you have little chance of winning is concerned, this is the reality for the majority of folks on the track. In most classes there is an elite group that will regularly make the podium. The rest might wish they could, but they know that their race, while it may go on at the same time, is with different people. But they are still racing. I've won races walking away from the field. But honestly that was nowhere near as much fun as I recently had taking a 9th place in SM. I don't know how much fun the winner of that race had, but I know that I had a blast and only finished ninth (so I was eighth loser?).
08-22-2012, 05:13 PM
#20
Race Director
Anyway... to the OP. The best way to know if you a ready for racing is to ask if you are comfortable driving the car at speed on the track. What I mean is that can you drive fast and not have traffic fluster you. Do you focus 100% on driving or can for drive 95% pace with 50% mental effort and leave another 50% to think about where the other cars are around you. In DE you can take each corner by yourself really focusing on what you are doing. When you are racing you need to be comfortable with being side by side with another car at speed. You have to be find with adjusting your speed, turning in points and track out points due traffic around you. If you cannot handle this you are not ready race as during racing you will be pushed off line multiple times during a race or even on the same lap. If you cannot react to that safely yuo are not ready to race.
08-22-2012, 05:14 PM
#21
The Penguin King
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Green
Blue
Yellow
White
Red (Instructor)
08-22-2012, 05:26 PM
#22
Perfect Angel
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Need some input. Short story is that I am a "yellow" solo DE driver (usually mid to front of the pack depending on the day) driving a 81 911SC. The car is pretty much built as a "D" stock PCA car (full cage,etc.). After some prodding from some prior instructors, I am thinking about doing my rookie race weekend in October at MSR- Cresson. I am a member at MSR so I am as comfortable there as anyplace. I have no illusions that I will even come close to being competitive but think it would be a great learning experience and a blast.
I have a "check ride" scheduled during a PCA event in September to see if they will sign off on my application. Any advice or inout would be welcomed. While I think it would be a great time, I don't wnat to get myself in over my head and certainly do not want to put anyone else at risk (concern #1).
I have a "check ride" scheduled during a PCA event in September to see if they will sign off on my application. Any advice or inout would be welcomed. While I think it would be a great time, I don't wnat to get myself in over my head and certainly do not want to put anyone else at risk (concern #1).
It is a whole different world. The aggression level in a race is about 1000 times higher than a DE. Be ready for it.
I can remember my first few starts I stayed glued to the guy in front of me because that's how you drive a DE. A veteran racer was poking fun at me later and reminded me it's OK to get out of line
The first year was humbling to say the least. I was pretty quick as a DE driver but got flat left behind in the races. I swore everyone was cheating. They might have been but I'm not as far behind as I used to be
08-22-2012, 05:49 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
EDIT: Saw MGlobe's response about where yellow is in your region.. I take back my comment about yellow. I guess you are in what other regions call White..
Hire a coach to work with you and give you some insight into where you are and what next steps should be - and work with you on driving skills. That person will give you the best advice.
Club Racing is fun and its very hard sometimes to switch your head back and forth from DE mode to Race mode. Just be prepared to staple a blank check to your registration papers - It ain't cheap.
You are also very smart to start with one of the less expensive and slower classes.
In the end, you will get endless opinions here, but the best person who can advise you will be someone who knows you, coaches / instructs with you and knows you and your driving.
Hire a coach to help assess and guide you in next steps. Its worth every penny and then some.
There are some truly talented coaches on this forum who you can reach out to.
And if you think hiring a coach is too expensive, then you should factor that into the cost of club racing
Hire a coach to work with you and give you some insight into where you are and what next steps should be - and work with you on driving skills. That person will give you the best advice.
Club Racing is fun and its very hard sometimes to switch your head back and forth from DE mode to Race mode. Just be prepared to staple a blank check to your registration papers
- It ain't cheap.You are also very smart to start with one of the less expensive and slower classes.
In the end, you will get endless opinions here, but the best person who can advise you will be someone who knows you, coaches / instructs with you and knows you and your driving.
Hire a coach to help assess and guide you in next steps. Its worth every penny and then some.
There are some truly talented coaches on this forum who you can reach out to.
And if you think hiring a coach is too expensive, then you should factor that into the cost of club racing
Last edited by dan212; 08-22-2012 at 06:12 PM.
08-22-2012, 06:05 PM
#24
Race Director
BTW... I did my first ever race at my home track. A track I knew well. I had probably about 12 solo track days under by belt and 2-3 years of autocross. Some might consider it too new to race, but I did just fine. I passed a car and did well in class. I did my best to blend in. I have learned alot about race craft in the 10 years since then, but you can't really go by other people's notion of when you a are ready. Best to go by those who know your driving and by you own internal feel. Like I said in my earlier post racing for novice is about being comfortable with driving off line and having cars around you. Race craft is not really a big deal in your first race. Where novice racers get into trouble is not being able to deal with cars around them. If you get spooked and start being unpredictable it can end very poorly. If you insist on driving over your head you will get in trouble.
08-22-2012, 06:43 PM
#25
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Go for it, if you're so inclined to even think about it. The guys in your region, and those at your track will know when you're ready - despite Paul's comments to the contrary.
The biggest leap of faith is the traffic - and it's close proximity as well, and as others have mentioned, situational awareness.
This is my first year, and I've just completed the rookie process for both PCA and NASA; feel free to PM me for my thoughts and a collection of the sage advice I've recieved from a raft of good folk this year alone.
The biggest leap of faith is the traffic - and it's close proximity as well, and as others have mentioned, situational awareness.
This is my first year, and I've just completed the rookie process for both PCA and NASA; feel free to PM me for my thoughts and a collection of the sage advice I've recieved from a raft of good folk this year alone.
08-22-2012, 07:37 PM
#26
Addict
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I'd have a different suggestion. In PCA DE on the West coast there is limited passing allowed (never in the turns) and never without a point-bye. Going from DE to racing becomes a huge change to get used to. I found that doing a year of DE with non-PCA groups where open passing was allowed and passing in the turns was permitted was a huge help in getting prepared to race. You might want to consider some alternative DE events before you jump in and race.
Having raced for a few years, I've stopped doing DEs as boring and too much hassle to try and work on anything because of the passing restrictions.
Having raced for a few years, I've stopped doing DEs as boring and too much hassle to try and work on anything because of the passing restrictions.
08-22-2012, 08:01 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
cometb,
Be sure and reach out to Keith Olcha and/or Jon Sandusky BEFORE the September event and let them know of your desires. They can provide you with very good feedback on your documented skills (noted by your prior instructors at previous Maverick or LSR DEs) and a possible timeline for an endorsement on your PCA Club Racing license. Ultimately, Keith or Jon will need to provide Susan Shire a recommendation regarding your application for a PCA license (assuming your are a Maverick Region member. If not, you will need a recommendation/endorsement from the Chief Driving Instructor of your PCA region). You will, obviously, need to have all your prerequisites (safety equipment, car prep, medical and your license application) ready along with your endorsement from Keith or Jon in advance of an interview with Susan Shire. That interview is crucial to the scheduling of your Rookie weekend and PCA Club Racing License school. Given that the October club race is in close proximity, it may be tight. Keith and Jon will be your very best source of information around possibilities and timelines.
Toby (DE Instructor in Maverick Region Team 3)
Be sure and reach out to Keith Olcha and/or Jon Sandusky BEFORE the September event and let them know of your desires. They can provide you with very good feedback on your documented skills (noted by your prior instructors at previous Maverick or LSR DEs) and a possible timeline for an endorsement on your PCA Club Racing license. Ultimately, Keith or Jon will need to provide Susan Shire a recommendation regarding your application for a PCA license (assuming your are a Maverick Region member. If not, you will need a recommendation/endorsement from the Chief Driving Instructor of your PCA region). You will, obviously, need to have all your prerequisites (safety equipment, car prep, medical and your license application) ready along with your endorsement from Keith or Jon in advance of an interview with Susan Shire. That interview is crucial to the scheduling of your Rookie weekend and PCA Club Racing License school. Given that the October club race is in close proximity, it may be tight. Keith and Jon will be your very best source of information around possibilities and timelines.
Toby (DE Instructor in Maverick Region Team 3)
well said
08-22-2012, 09:06 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
I also agree with the suggestion to run with organizations that have open passing anywhere for some experience. That was helpful for me.
08-22-2012, 10:03 PM
#29
I'm in the same boat, except that I have not talked to the CDI yet. I've been racing chumps for 2 seasons now. The main reason im doing pca DE's is to get qualified for club racing. DE's are fun, but racing is on another level.
08-22-2012, 10:40 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
The main differences that I see are 1) the pace is MUCH faster in PCA, everything happens a lot faster, and 2) the drivers are far more predictable, most of the time.... You still occassionally find a guy that drives pretty crazy in PCA, but almost everybody knows who he is, and you will soon.
Not only are the drivers more predictable and safer in PCA vs. Chump, but they are much more aggressive and will push you much harder. What I've found in Chump is that the good racers give everybody lots of room. Not necessarily the case in PCA, there's an expectation of skill. Although, you will find a nice "halo" effect while you still have the big X on your car