All DE people, please help.
09-29-2012, 08:44 PM
#61
My suggestions based on regular HPDEs I attend out on the west coast:
1. Reduce sessions to 25 minutes. (Edit: I just saw your point above about beginners running 3 minute laps, so fair enough.) Marginal benefit of those last few laps is not high IMO, especially for beginners. Yes, there is some transactional cost associated with shorter sessions, but overall this will help you squeeze in another session.
2. Get rid of an instructor only group. Instead, divide groups by skill level. If you have a lot of instructors / advanced drivers, then have two advanced groups. Spec Miatas should not be in the same advanced group as 911 Cup Cars.
3. For the lower skill level run groups, make them run their touring laps during their first session of the day. There's no sense in burning this time for everyone. Or if you insist, do it earlier. Red group should be the first group out and it shouldn't be a 40 min session (see above).
4. You are wasting a lot of time during the lunch hour and 25 min track tour. That's 1:25 in the middle of the day that nobody can drive. First, lunch does not need to be an hour because the sessions are staggered. If you reduce lunch to 45 min, people will still get over an hour for lunch because their sessions are not all at the same time. They just won't be able to eat at same time.
5. As for the track tour, this should be part of the parade laps in the morning. Anyone can join, since they are just lead follow and the # of cars on track doesn't matter. Again, you are wasting 25 minutes here.
With these suggestions, you can easily fit in another session for everyone, maybe even two if day light allows.
1. Reduce sessions to 25 minutes. (Edit: I just saw your point above about beginners running 3 minute laps, so fair enough.) Marginal benefit of those last few laps is not high IMO, especially for beginners. Yes, there is some transactional cost associated with shorter sessions, but overall this will help you squeeze in another session.
2. Get rid of an instructor only group. Instead, divide groups by skill level. If you have a lot of instructors / advanced drivers, then have two advanced groups. Spec Miatas should not be in the same advanced group as 911 Cup Cars.
3. For the lower skill level run groups, make them run their touring laps during their first session of the day. There's no sense in burning this time for everyone. Or if you insist, do it earlier. Red group should be the first group out and it shouldn't be a 40 min session (see above).
4. You are wasting a lot of time during the lunch hour and 25 min track tour. That's 1:25 in the middle of the day that nobody can drive. First, lunch does not need to be an hour because the sessions are staggered. If you reduce lunch to 45 min, people will still get over an hour for lunch because their sessions are not all at the same time. They just won't be able to eat at same time.
5. As for the track tour, this should be part of the parade laps in the morning. Anyone can join, since they are just lead follow and the # of cars on track doesn't matter. Again, you are wasting 25 minutes here.
With these suggestions, you can easily fit in another session for everyone, maybe even two if day light allows.
otherwise I think you make valid points.
09-29-2012, 10:03 PM
#62
Don't get me wrong: I watch my mirrors religiously and give point-bys, but the notion that making it required will somehow make everyone have an awesome time and get their money's worth from their magical unicorn lap times is way too simplistic.
As I see it, the primary distinction between DE and open track events is that in DE, the driver who's being overtaken controls the pass.
Falcondrivr, sorry for dragging this off topic.
09-30-2012, 12:19 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Mike was correct - this thread was not about it. nevertheless my opinion is the same, i do not say we need to go to extremes, all i say is to enforce a rule that would prevent train formation and would force people to pay more attention - you get 2 blue flags, then next if there are still 2+ cars stuck behind you - you get a black one, visit pits, have a conversation and go back. it is a very easy thing to do.
if you want to see an unpolite version - look up this thread below, from post #58. and NER is not a worst club on east coast by far in this regard.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...east-de-4.html
if you want to see an unpolite version - look up this thread below, from post #58. and NER is not a worst club on east coast by far in this regard.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...east-de-4.html
09-30-2012, 04:12 PM
#64
Cruisin'
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I also won our last DE so there!,
09-30-2012, 04:24 PM
#65
Cruisin'
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Rick,
Easy way to save time is have next run group on hot pit left ready to go. As car start entering on hot pit right, release the next group. It keeps the track hot longer.
Can you make trophies?
New logbooks are done and printed. I will give them to you at board mtg.
Easy way to save time is have next run group on hot pit left ready to go. As car start entering on hot pit right, release the next group. It keeps the track hot longer.
Can you make trophies?
New logbooks are done and printed. I will give them to you at board mtg.
09-30-2012, 05:22 PM
#67
I just said an instructors group only seems to be contrary to the point of a DE. put the instructors in the fast group (where presumably the students need less direct supervision/in-car instruction)generalize? yes but unfortunately it's a stereotype rooted in truth from what I've seen from various club DEs.
and congrats on the DE win
09-30-2012, 05:42 PM
#68
Cruisin'
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The issue I see is that newer model cars have so much capability and the limits are so high for drivers new to speed. To have an underpowered rear engined car where momentum, slip angle, balance, and throttle off oversteer have actual meaning has been huge for me. Many new drivers feel that swift laps times earn street cred, as they are freight trained thru curves sections by spec Miatas.
09-30-2012, 09:04 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
I never said they couldn't drive I just said an instructors group only seems to be contrary to the point of a DE. put the instructors in the fast group (where presumably the students need less direct supervision/in-car instruction)
generalize? yes but unfortunately it's a stereotype rooted in truth from what I've seen from various club DEs.
and congrats on the DE win
I just said an instructors group only seems to be contrary to the point of a DE. put the instructors in the fast group (where presumably the students need less direct supervision/in-car instruction)generalize? yes but unfortunately it's a stereotype rooted in truth from what I've seen from various club DEs.
and congrats on the DE win
With the introduction of extended passing, having an instructor group takes on a special importance. We some times combing the middle groups, we use A-D for the run groups, A= Advanced D= novice. So we will combine B & C if we are light on attendance.
09-30-2012, 09:09 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Actually, truth be told, we have found that plenty of advanced drivers can use (and want) advanced, higher-level instruction, which is why PCA regions her ein Texas have a separate corps of Advanced Instructors.
09-30-2012, 09:33 PM
#71
The Penguin King
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Anyone who is in the advanced or instructor group and thinks they don't need instruction clearly drives flat out, and probably should be avoided at all cost.
10-04-2012, 10:36 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
Another topic which needs to be discussed is teaching the proper line. I believe a video of the line which needs to be taught, would be good to send instructors to put them on the same page. Too many times have I been with a student and seen an instructor from a group other than PCA or even a Racer teaching a line other than party, PCA, late apex or what ever people want to call it.
10-04-2012, 10:42 PM
#73
And... we have coaches who's job is continuing education for the instructors, including the advanced instructors. I try whenever possible to get a fellow instructor in my car with me, and also try to ride with other instructors.
Anyone who is in the advanced or instructor group and thinks they don't need instruction clearly drives flat out, and probably should be avoided at all cost.
Anyone who is in the advanced or instructor group and thinks they don't need instruction clearly drives flat out, and probably should be avoided at all cost.
10-04-2012, 11:28 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
I believe all solo drivers should have advanced coaching and that should be done by the many pro coaches that are available, they need to earn a living also... In my opinion that should not be done by other instructors no matter how much experience or background, at least not. in car coaching. A class room of theory of advanced driving technique would be another story.