aj986s

Ditto use of cones on Day 1. And then remove on Day 2. But I'm not so sure about the "surprise removal" concept for Day 2. I think best to know its coming and look for permanent landmarks in reference to the cones on Day 1, to better prepare for Day 2.

And always remind students (and possibly instructors, too....) that cones can & do move on occasion. So need to be careful about how much you rely on them.

Matt Romanowski

I think Rick hit the nail on the head. Just becuase they are there, doesn't mean we have to look at them. I'm told there are flaggers out there too!

Part of our job instructing is teaching vision and where to look. The cones can be helpful at first, but then we need to teach people how to look ahead and use all the reference points available.

Veloce Raptor

I have to admit that it has been a long time since I have instructed a beginner (Green) at a DE. However, I agree with the above sentiments that there is a lot to be gained, and nothign to be lost, by having cones present on day 1. The only challenge with that, in my experience, is that by lunch, half of them will have been knocked down by instructors driving in their own ruun group

certz

In my region we use cones for only one event - the annual Novice Day. After that, generally there are no cones at any DE. As an instructor I like and dislike them because, just as some have said, you get students relying too much on them. And for those that said isn't that the instructors job to fix? Well yes, but how much instructing have you done and still had a student do the opposite? I do like the idea of removing the cones after the second day - or even the second session.

Astroman

+1 again.

Sorry, but anyone who says "no cones ever" has forgotten what it's like to be driving your car on the track for the very first time.

J richard

SnowCones?...

It's just a reference point, I think they are useful early on, it's so much easier to direct the student early on to a singular point rather than trying to both describe the point and hace the student pick it up in short order. On some wide, flat tracks with asphalt runoffs its the only way, but it can become a crutch quickly.

There are several tracks where I would love to place a cone or two in the MIDDLE of the track to help students understand a more complex corner and where the car should be. One complaint is a poorly placed cone is very counterproductive, a student sees a cone it's like a moth to the flame...

Veloce Raptor

Hmm...

pontifex4

onefastviking

Your welcome.

onefastviking

Cones become a focus point for many students, which is then a crutch, and then handicaps them when the cones get moved, either by another car or removed however. It teaches most of the students to drive immediately, or a relatively short distance, in front of the car. Teaching the student to scan and look more on a panaromic level teaches them how to drive the corners and the track.

If you are going to use marker points to try to teach your students then at least pick markers that can not be moved so easily.

I've been instructing/coaching/teaching for a few years now, and have gone from the attitude of we must have cones because that is the way we have always done it and the students must know when and where to turn and brake. To a few years ago, let's remove cones and use markers on course that can't be moved, trees,fences,traffic lights(think NASCAR light), yellow boxes on pavement,seems/patches in pavement, etc etc. To where we are now today instructing with no cones, no markers, and looking far enough ahead to just be driving the track. While I admit it may be a little harder initially, in the long run it is NOT teaching the bad habit of looking just in front of the car which allows students to get up to real speed much quicker and safer.
Looking farther and farther ahead is the ultimate goal. I love teaching blind corners, think up over hills and such, people are always so worried about those. My take is "They are simple, you can see them in your head, you don't need to see the corner physically, I promise you the asphalt has NOT moved since you came thru from your last lap."

todinlaw

Our region decide this year NOT to use cones. Cones promote looking at cones rather than the track and the apex. they make people point and shoot. I am talking Turn in, apex and track out cones. On a long straight the track maintains braking cones that is a different story. same with distance markers that is a useful tool so that you can get the brake point constant.

The outcome, no one complained about it or even mentioned it. no wrecks do to lack of cones.

Just one less thing to drag to the track for us.

onefastviking

So what happens to the student that learns to drive by the cones and then they get moved 5 feet, do you let them blow the corner because they have been turning at that same cone ALL weekend long. Or someone new goes out and places the cones from one event to another and doesn't quite get all the cones in the same place from one event to another ?

There are other ways to teach technique without have cones to tell them they correctly hit the Apex and were at the correct spot at track out. - Think "one steering input".
And braking points, well, that will be pretty obvious won't it.

onefastviking

It is our job, but it makes the job easier to just teach them correctly from the start vs having to unlearn a bad habit of looking for a cone in front of their bumper before they brake/turn/apex/track out.

onefastviking

Our region saw the same results when cones were removed.

As for the long brake zones, why add cones ? Use the brake distance markers on the fence/wall/etc. That way the instructor can have them brake more accordingly as needed. A brake point for a GT3RS is going to be a little different than for a Miata. This is why the instructor is in the car, and why cones make no sense.

Sean F

you say "turn in 5 feet before the cone"

My experience has been with green students they need reference points until they become more advanced so why not give them to them.

The challenge with this topic is that cones don't make sense for all drivers but you can't go around putting up and taking down cones for every run group.

That means you go to the lowest common denominator and the first principal is safety. I believe (personal opinion), cones make the green guys safer.