Ross_Bentley

I've been talking to a few different HPDE organizers about the use of cones to mark out the line around the track. Do you use cones to define the turn-in, apex and exit points of the track in your HPDE session? If so, do you keep them there all the time, or only for a certain amount of time? What works for you - what are the pros and cons?

onefastviking

NO CONES !

If you have cones people will learn to drive based by the cones.
If you have NO cones, people will learn how to drive a race track.
Make sense ? ? ?

Best thing ever done was removing the cones from a DE. I do know another group that pulls the cones after Saturday DE and then goes cone less on Sunday, I guess that is a compromise and better than cones all weekend.

333pg333

Interesting question. You see cones in actual races too.

Referring to an earlier point you made Ross, if you were trying to use the 'think of when you come off the brakes' method, the cones you sometimes see at braking reference point pre apex can confuse the driver if he/she is concentrating too much on using this as an exact place to get on the stoppers.

Having done the equivalent of your DE days I can see why it's a good idea as you get a lot of people that are out there for the first time and this is a good help for them. As the speed/experience groups progress up to the fastest, you tend to ignore the cones anyway. They also seem to be not in the ideal place depending on the car or the method you're trying (early/late apex).

dan212

No cones in general. But better still. Both.

Put the cones up on day one and take them off on day 2 or 3, but don't tell the instructors until that day.. Its good for the students AND the instructors.

If everyone is doing things right, it shouldn't really matter.

mhm993

Hate cones.

Van

What about braking markers?? Are they just cones for grownups?

rkirshner

Maybe it is not all or none
calibrated brake zone cones ,particularly at fast corners ,are helpful and add to safety .
apex and trackout cones are then not needed.
no apex and trackout cones requires drivers and instructors to better understand the physics of a racing line
just a thought

ProCoach

This. Shortens the learning curve for those without track-specific experience or knowledge.

Sean F

I wouldn't want to be in the car with a first time student and no cones. It's overwhelming as it is.

early_grayce

+infinity

For DE?
Cones.
Without a doubt. No question.

mike1111

I did do an event as an instructor with no cones and it made my job more difficult.

As a driver I don't even see them any more unless they are in the middle of the track.

I believe they are a good tool for a beginning student, learning curve aside, I am seeing too many going to solo when they are not ready for other reasons besides the cones....

ProCoach

Huh?

I had a strong discussion with the Comp Director at one of Bobby Rahal's Legends of Motorsports events where I advocated forcefully to have cones for the Thursday Test Day and the Track Orientation Program that I ran for Bobby, but then equally forcefully to have them REMOVED at the end of day Thursday.

Have not seen cones at properly organized competition events...

racing916

No cones. I find the students driving from one cone to the next and never looking ahead or around them for their brake point, turn in, etc... Many times the cones are not in the same spot from event to event

RickBetterley

Like Dan, Peter, and Sean said.
Some students are completely overwhelmed by the newness of DE, and need the visual cue that the cones provide. Eventually cones become a crutch and get in the way of learning. For those drivers, they can be ignored (or, just another cue - no law that I know of that says you have to follow the cones).

RickBetterley

But - isn't part of our job as instructors to teach them how to not do this?