Porsche LMP1 breaks cover
06-13-2013, 09:27 PM
#46
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I don't get you guys.
Just because both Audi and Porsche have the same parent company does not mean they cannot compete against each other autonomously. Porsche made its brand on racing. Being successful at the top levels of sports car racing is great for their business. It's a marketing tool for sales of cars and for their engineering business.
Porsche obviously believes they can win within a budget that makes sense. I don't see the issue....
Scott
Just because both Audi and Porsche have the same parent company does not mean they cannot compete against each other autonomously. Porsche made its brand on racing. Being successful at the top levels of sports car racing is great for their business. It's a marketing tool for sales of cars and for their engineering business.
Porsche obviously believes they can win within a budget that makes sense. I don't see the issue....
Scott
What happens if the Porsche team gets their clocks cleaned by Audi next year? It would be a disaster from a PR stand point and something the board absolutely cannot let happen. Better that they finish close to each other even if it's not on the top step than having one finish P1 and the other last. Once the Porsche LMP1 car tests, they will know if the P car is close to the Audi and vis-versa. I suspect they will have to work behind the scenes more than the public will know at that that point, it's not really Pcar vs. Audi, it's a collusion of VAG vs. the Toyotas and everyone else.
06-13-2013, 09:38 PM
#47
Pete,
You don't really know if there will be any interaction between Porsche and Audi behind the scenes. You cannot say it is not Porsche against Audi and the rest of the field. You are making assumptions that don't necessarily make sense when you understand how Porsche operates. Just because they are owned by VAG does not mean they will share with Audi or vice versa. Porsche is still an autonomous company in most ways.
Scott
You don't really know if there will be any interaction between Porsche and Audi behind the scenes. You cannot say it is not Porsche against Audi and the rest of the field. You are making assumptions that don't necessarily make sense when you understand how Porsche operates. Just because they are owned by VAG does not mean they will share with Audi or vice versa. Porsche is still an autonomous company in most ways.
Scott
06-13-2013, 11:41 PM
#48
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Correct, I don't know what is going on behind closed doors, but I do know that there is too much on the line for either company to lose face and when there is a lot on the line you always follow the money trail and hence I'm skeptical that it will truly be two independent companies that would fight each other to the win. I would love to be proven wrong and a year from now we're talking about a battle with independent technology from each maker. No one will know for 12 month...
06-14-2013, 12:30 AM
#49
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
One thing I think some of you are overlooking.
Parent company this or that, I'll guarantee you the actual people in both race teams are there to win and want it bad. I
I've seen it in F1 between the two "teams" within one team and have no doubt on both,sides of the "fence", they want to beat each others bad and don't think for a second that won't matter and that it's all about "decisions,in boardroom".
Go Porsche! I'm beyond tired of Audi's dominance in Le Mans!
Parent company this or that, I'll guarantee you the actual people in both race teams are there to win and want it bad. I
I've seen it in F1 between the two "teams" within one team and have no doubt on both,sides of the "fence", they want to beat each others bad and don't think for a second that won't matter and that it's all about "decisions,in boardroom".
Go Porsche! I'm beyond tired of Audi's dominance in Le Mans!
06-14-2013, 01:16 AM
#50
One thing I think some of you are overlooking.
Parent company this or that, I'll guarantee you the actual people in both race teams are there to win and want it bad. I
I've seen it in F1 between the two "teams" within one team and have no doubt on both,sides of the "fence", they want to beat each others bad and don't think for a second that won't matter and that it's all about "decisions,in boardroom".
Go Porsche! I'm beyond tired of Audi's dominance in Le Mans!
Parent company this or that, I'll guarantee you the actual people in both race teams are there to win and want it bad. I
I've seen it in F1 between the two "teams" within one team and have no doubt on both,sides of the "fence", they want to beat each others bad and don't think for a second that won't matter and that it's all about "decisions,in boardroom".
Go Porsche! I'm beyond tired of Audi's dominance in Le Mans!
06-14-2013, 07:49 AM
#51
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Good point and I agree, I believe and hope that Audi is not the Schumi/Alsonso of the Le Mans teams, if that was the case at VAG, why let Porsche do this at all?
06-15-2013, 01:48 AM
#52
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 40 min South from the 'Ring, 45 min East of Spa
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont' think it's negativity but rather a skepticism of "Will Porsche really be competing with Audi". If you or I sat on the VAG board would we want an arms race between our two subsidiaries, Porsche and Audi? The arguments ltc brings up are valid. If Porsche cannot compete with Audi (at least initially) and gets beat convincingly, it's not a good image for the sports car brand that has a long history of winning at LeMans. If Audi gets beaten convincingly, how with their brand image suffer as a result? If both Porsche and Audi have a slug fest for the overall win, will it have been engineered by the suits in the boardroom for a positive brand image to benefit both Porsche and Audi? Unfortunately, what is called the "purity" of the spectacle could be manipulated. I don't buy the A and B team argument as Porsche will not want to be the Toro Rosso to the Red Bulls Racing and Audi will not want to take a back seat to Porsche given their dominance in the past decade.
06-15-2013, 11:27 AM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Parent company this or that, I'll guarantee you the actual people in both race teams are there to win and want it bad. I
I've seen it in F1 between the two "teams" within one team and have no doubt on both,sides of the "fence", they want to beat each others bad and don't think for a second that won't matter and that it's all about "decisions,in boardroom".
I've seen it in F1 between the two "teams" within one team and have no doubt on both,sides of the "fence", they want to beat each others bad and don't think for a second that won't matter and that it's all about "decisions,in boardroom".
Think of the marketing "AUDI - nobody can touch us on track so we funded Porsche to provide us some competition."
It's like the US, in the old days when there was nobody to war with they split into two sides and had a war with each other.
06-23-2013, 07:04 PM
#55
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...storm_at_audi/
Snipped from that story:
Watching all of this very closely is Porsche. The two brands contribute to the same bottom line, but make no mistake: there is no love lost between them. Both realize they won't forever be able to conceive their model ranges independent of one another, and each wants to be the senior partner. Audi already controls Lamborghini, Ducati, and Italdesign Giugiaro, and it makes more money. Porsche clears higher margins and is flexing its muscle through Bentley, for which it sought to develop the component set for the next Continental and Mulsanne; Audi fought back with its own component set, but in this league, two is a crowd. Porsche also claims to lead all VW Group sports car development, which would not only include Lamborghini but also the next R8. We smell conflict here. In short, Audi's management must steer toward a set of sustainable priorities, or else Volkswagen and Porsche will take the wheel.
06-23-2013, 07:27 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In the pasture.
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Audi develops Diesel hybrids and Porsche petrol hybrids. I suspect Porsche will have speed and fuel economy. The Audis only have so many wins left in their technology. Look at Toyota. They are working on fuel economy to limit pit stops as a strategy for wins. They may be there by next year.
Seems like smart use of resources to me. Diesels hybrids for EU market and petrol for North America. Both perfected and proven on the race track.
Now Nissan on the other hand may leapfrog them both with full electric. Can't wait to see how the next gen Delta Wing does next year.
Seems like smart use of resources to me. Diesels hybrids for EU market and petrol for North America. Both perfected and proven on the race track.
Now Nissan on the other hand may leapfrog them both with full electric. Can't wait to see how the next gen Delta Wing does next year.
06-23-2013, 08:14 PM
#57
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
It's not a "Delta Wing" anymore......
