Bob Rouleau

A few weeks back there was a fatal accident at my home track. A 997 GT3, harness roll bar and hans. Car hit hard on the passenger side. Driver died of a broken neck.

This got me to thinking - it seems likely that a halo seat might have saved his life. Had he hit drivers side, the airbag might have saved him.

Here's the question, without a halo seat and net, wouold he have been more likely to survive had he been wearing the OEM three point belt? It would have allowed more body movement than his 6 pt harness. The body movement towards the impact would lessen the force on his neck. Might this have given him a chance? As things were he died instantly.

Note I am asking from a safety standpoint in a car equipped for front and side airbags. I know about the advantages of wearing a harness, but I am looking only at the case of a hard passenger side impact.

Thanks,

2BWise

Here is a passenger side impact in a Neon (seat, cage, harness), without a side net, and at moderately low speed since Neons have a top of like 10. Look at that head movement!

ProCoach

Bob, this was a scenario similar to the Adam Petty, Dale Earnhardt, Allan Simonsen accident, where hyper extension of the neck brought about by a side impact caused the fatality.

I don't know the specifics of the July 6th incident, Vince was even more brusque than usual when I inquired, but your supposition that if the body were held firm by the harness and the head movement was not limited by a halo seat, a center net or some other SFI 38.1 head and neck restraint, that the hyper extension would be MORE likely, sounds plausible to me.

I think that the idea of a three point reducing the accelerative (or more accurately, decelerative) forces on the basilar skull area would be correct, but I'm no doctor. I just have done a fair bit of accident forensics in sports cars. YMMV.

FFaust

IMvHO, odds are he would have survived, bruised and very sore, but alive.

I installed a halo seat in the car this year for this very reason. I was at Road Atlanta last fall when the incident with the Corvette occurred.

It's incredible that a HANS provides so little lateral support. Seems to me that there should be a way to improve this (lateral tethers?), but then, if racers all have halos and nets, there is probably no need for a better mouse trap.

RickBetterley

Hi Bob
I am glad you initiated this conversation. I was at Tremblant the day after the fatality and to say I was shocked is an understatement.
I don't have enough knowledge to comment on your question, but from what I recall about the 3-points, they are designed to allow a twisting motion of the body, which may well have absorbed some of the force that led to the broken neck.
I don't know the victim or his family but am deeply saddened by their loss. The only other DE fatalities (or even severe injuries) I have heard of were caused by a preceding medical event.
BTW - I was going to install a halo seat in my car but got talked out of it; I have instead installed a cent and window net.

ir_fuel

Or maybe use this instead of a HANS?

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motors...straint-device

pontifex4

I wear a Hybrid and don't currently have a halo seat. It is certainly harder to get belted in with, but I've learned to live with it. As to whether it's actually better? Honestly, I hope never to find out.

Deadeye

I saw this car on a flat bed a few days after the crash. VERY hard hit that looked to be flush on the pass side. Seriously considering a halo seat.

Can a center net and window net provide the same level of protection as a halo? Seems like the window net is too far from the head to do much.

FFaust

I would be curious to know what the arguments were, if you don't mind sharing.

RickBetterley

Gladly, though I am still not convinced.
Mostly because they are difficult to exit from (in a crash).
But wearing my risk management hat, I'd rather be safe in a crash with a slower exit than less safe but easier to exit. Either would suck

certz

I recently had a passenger side impact with the tires at Mid-Ohio. Not flush, hit right front quarter, then door, then right rear quarter. I have a halo seat and I have watched the video several times in slow-mo/frame-by-frame. I was happy (relative term) to see my head just "rattle" a half inch between the halo uprights and no further. I was surprised to see my head move upwards out of the seat, though, but I guess the energy has to go somewhere and I assume this was belt stretch. In any case, I will always have a halo seat after seeing that video.

Bob Rouleau

The trouble with Halo seats is that many I have seen were not sized correctly and the result is that the driver is wearing blinders! They need to be the right height! I wonder how much of a nuisance they'd be in a car I drive to the track.

pontifex4

Probably a good time to mention that a few companies have halo seats with removable wings. Kirkey and Sparco are two that I'm aware of. Cobra makes one with hoops.

You raise a great point about height, though: in my experience, virtually anyone who is using a HANS with a Recaro seat with a small shoulder belt opening (Profi, Pole Position, etc) has a dangerous shoulder belt angle issue. The openings are quite low.

hf1

Bob, look up Sparco Ergo seat with removable halos.

Eifeler

Bob- My last car was street legal and I drove it around from time to time. If you trust your mirrors (as on track), the halo seat is not a problem. For those that need the extra confidence provided by a peripheral peak back to the quarter panels, a halo seat will be unnerving.

I will not race a car that does not have a halo seat. A side benefit is that in an enduro it's nice to occationally let the halo hold your head in place through a long sweeper.