Ballpark Cost of a weekend in a Conti ST car?
09-26-2013, 02:18 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
09-26-2013, 02:24 PM
#17
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09-26-2013, 02:40 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
Cory thanks for all the info. I will be contacting you soon to see what my options with autometrics are. I'd love to stay in a Porsche if possible. I also have been on the track with you recently and can already appreciate your skill set. I was in the green G patron 964 that was dicing it out Labor Day a bit with Jimmy Martin. You came around and got Doug Crossman and I.
Will you guys be building a new boxster if the rules allow?
09-26-2013, 04:07 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Interesting discussion. I like watching this stuff on TV, it's readily evident that these guys drive really hard. Too bad it has to be so expensive, just way out of reach for most of us, I'm just grateful I get to race at all.
09-26-2013, 09:58 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
let me add one more point. i cant speak too accurately about the very specifics o f another's business, but i can speak as a guy who was a driver only, then driver/team owner/shop owner, and not just a driver. in my estimation, teams like Autometrics, ZSA, DeMan, etc. the other 'smaller' Rolex/WC/ teams at these pro races..when they charge that 15k$ a seat....or they ask you to pay $X /day for a club race.....they arent making millions. there is so little meat on the bones, its scarey.
its not just the case with pro weekends, but also pca club races, track days, test and tunes.
sometimes we as drivers sit there and look at like "$1200/day for support? what the heck could cost so much.?they must be making a ton".
ive sat on both side sof the table... and can definitely say how little can be made relative to how hard it is to make it.
a guy goes to a 3 day weekend gets charged $1200, 1500/day for support. its not just the 1 or 2 guys covering your car for the couple of days, but:
1. the day or more loading the trailer to lug your stuff there;
2. the hours and hours of preparing, talking to the crew, arranging, making flights, making hotel arranges, car service. its a day of prep atleast.
2. the day or so lost loading the trailer and preparing.
3. the haul down. fuel, wear tear on the rigs;
4. cost of flights down; food during transit.
5. opportunity costs while the entire shop is away at the races;
6. arriving maybe 3pm that day before test and tune, preparing the awning getting the cars fueled and ready.
7. food and hotels all throughout
8. working from 7am to 11pm at night ; this to me is the most brutal part. it was maybe th emost difficult part for me as a team owner. almost always at the track i bring my bike and get in invalueable training, logging miles on the rural roads your find near most of the these tracks. i get back around 8, quick shower and hit the drivers' meeting. the crew though is up at 5, at the track at 6, 630, and they are working like dogs all day in the heat, lugging, schlepping, on their back, dealing with headaches, nonesense, bad parts, wrecked pieces. when the day is over, one by one the cars go on the alignment rack and maybe if the are lucky they swallow some steak around 8,9pm at night. if someone has wrecked or needs a motor change, they'll be doing it all night or late into the night. yeah its the life they've chosen and they love it.
i say this as nicely as i can. sometimes us "drivers" tend to be guys who have a bit more disposable income, we're the ones buying the $2500 tire sets, $1000s in fuel, flights, hotel rooms. we're driving the 150k caymans and having the big fun. yet sometimes we begrudge or take issue that someone would charge $1000day to give us a grea ttime, vs 750. or we second guess that it took 5 hours to prepare the car for a big fun weekend vs what , somehow in our novice heads, we believe shoudl have been 4 hours.
some wallstreet guy is psyched that his business model generated a massive profit of tens of thousands.. the doctors are enjoying their surgerys or patients before heading to the golf range or the race track.... Race shops aint making millions. the best might make good money and have great operations and great equipment. but there aint no millions (maybe other than the race big big pro team that has some crazy coot billionaire seth nieman customer)....race shop owner guys want to make payroll, have a wonderful time at the track, pocket a a few grand for having a whole crew away for 5,6days.
not sure exactly my point, but i guess its that ALL of car racing, is expensive. some is more affordable. but if guys charge $20000 for an ST seat, my guess is that for having an entire team away from the shop for 5,6 days, the owner of the shop might make a grand or two or three. they could probably have made the same 2,3,4grand having their five staff stay in the warehouse working on cars all day for well like 1 day.
its expensive because of the costs, not because of any kind of massive profit. noone's paying for a kids' college tuitiion base don your $25000 rental of an ST seat.
just my two cents.
its not just the case with pro weekends, but also pca club races, track days, test and tunes.
sometimes we as drivers sit there and look at like "$1200/day for support? what the heck could cost so much.?they must be making a ton".
ive sat on both side sof the table... and can definitely say how little can be made relative to how hard it is to make it.
a guy goes to a 3 day weekend gets charged $1200, 1500/day for support. its not just the 1 or 2 guys covering your car for the couple of days, but:
1. the day or more loading the trailer to lug your stuff there;
2. the hours and hours of preparing, talking to the crew, arranging, making flights, making hotel arranges, car service. its a day of prep atleast.
2. the day or so lost loading the trailer and preparing.
3. the haul down. fuel, wear tear on the rigs;
4. cost of flights down; food during transit.
5. opportunity costs while the entire shop is away at the races;
6. arriving maybe 3pm that day before test and tune, preparing the awning getting the cars fueled and ready.
7. food and hotels all throughout
8. working from 7am to 11pm at night ; this to me is the most brutal part. it was maybe th emost difficult part for me as a team owner. almost always at the track i bring my bike and get in invalueable training, logging miles on the rural roads your find near most of the these tracks. i get back around 8, quick shower and hit the drivers' meeting. the crew though is up at 5, at the track at 6, 630, and they are working like dogs all day in the heat, lugging, schlepping, on their back, dealing with headaches, nonesense, bad parts, wrecked pieces. when the day is over, one by one the cars go on the alignment rack and maybe if the are lucky they swallow some steak around 8,9pm at night. if someone has wrecked or needs a motor change, they'll be doing it all night or late into the night. yeah its the life they've chosen and they love it.
i say this as nicely as i can. sometimes us "drivers" tend to be guys who have a bit more disposable income, we're the ones buying the $2500 tire sets, $1000s in fuel, flights, hotel rooms. we're driving the 150k caymans and having the big fun. yet sometimes we begrudge or take issue that someone would charge $1000day to give us a grea ttime, vs 750. or we second guess that it took 5 hours to prepare the car for a big fun weekend vs what , somehow in our novice heads, we believe shoudl have been 4 hours.
some wallstreet guy is psyched that his business model generated a massive profit of tens of thousands.. the doctors are enjoying their surgerys or patients before heading to the golf range or the race track.... Race shops aint making millions. the best might make good money and have great operations and great equipment. but there aint no millions (maybe other than the race big big pro team that has some crazy coot billionaire seth nieman customer)....race shop owner guys want to make payroll, have a wonderful time at the track, pocket a a few grand for having a whole crew away for 5,6days.
not sure exactly my point, but i guess its that ALL of car racing, is expensive. some is more affordable. but if guys charge $20000 for an ST seat, my guess is that for having an entire team away from the shop for 5,6 days, the owner of the shop might make a grand or two or three. they could probably have made the same 2,3,4grand having their five staff stay in the warehouse working on cars all day for well like 1 day.
its expensive because of the costs, not because of any kind of massive profit. noone's paying for a kids' college tuitiion base don your $25000 rental of an ST seat.
just my two cents.
Last edited by spg993tt; 09-27-2013 at 06:48 AM.
09-27-2013, 07:12 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Video wasn't working, 
Anyway, probably one of the reasons why I paid 8k vs. 12k.
However, I did record Speed channel and it does show the 24 Bimmer taking out the stang.
Not my best drive. I will see if I can transfer the vid to something uploadable. (Is that a word?)
You guys might recognize my co-driver, Cory Friedman.
Unfortunately, I did not hand him over a car worthy of driving when I came into the pits. Too bad also, I was as high as 6th place at the time and Cory was running at least top 5 with his times. If anyone is ever considering a drive with Autometrics in Grand AM, Cory is top-notch and a true pro. He is always fast and has incredible racecraft. 
Anyway, probably one of the reasons why I paid 8k vs. 12k. However, I did record Speed channel and it does show the 24 Bimmer taking out the stang.
Not my best drive. I will see if I can transfer the vid to something uploadable. (Is that a word?)You guys might recognize my co-driver, Cory Friedman.
Unfortunately, I did not hand him over a car worthy of driving when I came into the pits. Too bad also, I was as high as 6th place at the time and Cory was running at least top 5 with his times. If anyone is ever considering a drive with Autometrics in Grand AM, Cory is top-notch and a true pro. He is always fast and has incredible racecraft. Haha I don't know if they can pay me enough to afford a seat, unless the seat is free then I'll gladly answer phones and stand around looking pretty.
Cory thanks for all the info. I will be contacting you soon to see what my options with autometrics are. I'd love to stay in a Porsche if possible. I also have been on the track with you recently and can already appreciate your skill set. I was in the green G patron 964 that was dicing it out Labor Day a bit with Jimmy Martin. You came around and got Doug Crossman and I.
Will you guys be building a new boxster if the rules allow?
Cory thanks for all the info. I will be contacting you soon to see what my options with autometrics are. I'd love to stay in a Porsche if possible. I also have been on the track with you recently and can already appreciate your skill set. I was in the green G patron 964 that was dicing it out Labor Day a bit with Jimmy Martin. You came around and got Doug Crossman and I.
Will you guys be building a new boxster if the rules allow?
09-30-2013, 06:47 PM
#24
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let me add one more point. i cant speak too accurately about the very specifics o f another's business, but i can speak as a guy who was a driver only, then driver/team owner/shop owner, and not just a driver. in my estimation, teams like Autometrics, ZSA, DeMan, etc. the other 'smaller' Rolex/WC/ teams at these pro races..when they charge that 15k$ a seat....or they ask you to pay $X /day for a club race.....they arent making millions. there is so little meat on the bones, its scarey.
its not just the case with pro weekends, but also pca club races, track days, test and tunes.
sometimes we as drivers sit there and look at like "$1200/day for support? what the heck could cost so much.?they must be making a ton".
ive sat on both side sof the table... and can definitely say how little can be made relative to how hard it is to make it.
a guy goes to a 3 day weekend gets charged $1200, 1500/day for support. its not just the 1 or 2 guys covering your car for the couple of days, but:
1. the day or more loading the trailer to lug your stuff there;
2. the hours and hours of preparing, talking to the crew, arranging, making flights, making hotel arranges, car service. its a day of prep atleast.
2. the day or so lost loading the trailer and preparing.
3. the haul down. fuel, wear tear on the rigs;
4. cost of flights down; food during transit.
5. opportunity costs while the entire shop is away at the races;
6. arriving maybe 3pm that day before test and tune, preparing the awning getting the cars fueled and ready.
7. food and hotels all throughout
8. working from 7am to 11pm at night ; this to me is the most brutal part. it was maybe th emost difficult part for me as a team owner. almost always at the track i bring my bike and get in invalueable training, logging miles on the rural roads your find near most of the these tracks. i get back around 8, quick shower and hit the drivers' meeting. the crew though is up at 5, at the track at 6, 630, and they are working like dogs all day in the heat, lugging, schlepping, on their back, dealing with headaches, nonesense, bad parts, wrecked pieces. when the day is over, one by one the cars go on the alignment rack and maybe if the are lucky they swallow some steak around 8,9pm at night. if someone has wrecked or needs a motor change, they'll be doing it all night or late into the night. yeah its the life they've chosen and they love it.
i say this as nicely as i can. sometimes us "drivers" tend to be guys who have a bit more disposable income, we're the ones buying the $2500 tire sets, $1000s in fuel, flights, hotel rooms. we're driving the 150k caymans and having the big fun. yet sometimes we begrudge or take issue that someone would charge $1000day to give us a grea ttime, vs 750. or we second guess that it took 5 hours to prepare the car for a big fun weekend vs what , somehow in our novice heads, we believe shoudl have been 4 hours.
some wallstreet guy is psyched that his business model generated a massive profit of tens of thousands.. the doctors are enjoying their surgerys or patients before heading to the golf range or the race track.... Race shops aint making millions. the best might make good money and have great operations and great equipment. but there aint no millions (maybe other than the race big big pro team that has some crazy coot billionaire seth nieman customer)....race shop owner guys want to make payroll, have a wonderful time at the track, pocket a a few grand for having a whole crew away for 5,6days.
not sure exactly my point, but i guess its that ALL of car racing, is expensive. some is more affordable. but if guys charge $20000 for an ST seat, my guess is that for having an entire team away from the shop for 5,6 days, the owner of the shop might make a grand or two or three. they could probably have made the same 2,3,4grand having their five staff stay in the warehouse working on cars all day for well like 1 day.
its expensive because of the costs, not because of any kind of massive profit. noone's paying for a kids' college tuitiion base don your $25000 rental of an ST seat.
just my two cents.
its not just the case with pro weekends, but also pca club races, track days, test and tunes.
sometimes we as drivers sit there and look at like "$1200/day for support? what the heck could cost so much.?they must be making a ton".
ive sat on both side sof the table... and can definitely say how little can be made relative to how hard it is to make it.
a guy goes to a 3 day weekend gets charged $1200, 1500/day for support. its not just the 1 or 2 guys covering your car for the couple of days, but:
1. the day or more loading the trailer to lug your stuff there;
2. the hours and hours of preparing, talking to the crew, arranging, making flights, making hotel arranges, car service. its a day of prep atleast.
2. the day or so lost loading the trailer and preparing.
3. the haul down. fuel, wear tear on the rigs;
4. cost of flights down; food during transit.
5. opportunity costs while the entire shop is away at the races;
6. arriving maybe 3pm that day before test and tune, preparing the awning getting the cars fueled and ready.
7. food and hotels all throughout
8. working from 7am to 11pm at night ; this to me is the most brutal part. it was maybe th emost difficult part for me as a team owner. almost always at the track i bring my bike and get in invalueable training, logging miles on the rural roads your find near most of the these tracks. i get back around 8, quick shower and hit the drivers' meeting. the crew though is up at 5, at the track at 6, 630, and they are working like dogs all day in the heat, lugging, schlepping, on their back, dealing with headaches, nonesense, bad parts, wrecked pieces. when the day is over, one by one the cars go on the alignment rack and maybe if the are lucky they swallow some steak around 8,9pm at night. if someone has wrecked or needs a motor change, they'll be doing it all night or late into the night. yeah its the life they've chosen and they love it.
i say this as nicely as i can. sometimes us "drivers" tend to be guys who have a bit more disposable income, we're the ones buying the $2500 tire sets, $1000s in fuel, flights, hotel rooms. we're driving the 150k caymans and having the big fun. yet sometimes we begrudge or take issue that someone would charge $1000day to give us a grea ttime, vs 750. or we second guess that it took 5 hours to prepare the car for a big fun weekend vs what , somehow in our novice heads, we believe shoudl have been 4 hours.
some wallstreet guy is psyched that his business model generated a massive profit of tens of thousands.. the doctors are enjoying their surgerys or patients before heading to the golf range or the race track.... Race shops aint making millions. the best might make good money and have great operations and great equipment. but there aint no millions (maybe other than the race big big pro team that has some crazy coot billionaire seth nieman customer)....race shop owner guys want to make payroll, have a wonderful time at the track, pocket a a few grand for having a whole crew away for 5,6days.
not sure exactly my point, but i guess its that ALL of car racing, is expensive. some is more affordable. but if guys charge $20000 for an ST seat, my guess is that for having an entire team away from the shop for 5,6 days, the owner of the shop might make a grand or two or three. they could probably have made the same 2,3,4grand having their five staff stay in the warehouse working on cars all day for well like 1 day.
its expensive because of the costs, not because of any kind of massive profit. noone's paying for a kids' college tuitiion base don your $25000 rental of an ST seat.
just my two cents.
Words of wisdom SG!!
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845 727 3070
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2016 GT4-R
Rick DeMan
DeMan Motorsport
Upper Nyack, NY
845 727 3070
Porsche Sales & Service
Porsche Race services and parts
www.DeManMotorsport.com
09-30-2013, 11:12 PM
#26
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let me add one more point. i cant speak too accurately about the very specifics o f another's business, but i can speak as a guy who was a driver only, then driver/team owner/shop owner, and not just a driver. in my estimation, teams like Autometrics, ZSA, DeMan, etc. the other 'smaller' Rolex/WC/ teams at these pro races..when they charge that 15k$ a seat....or they ask you to pay $X /day for a club race.....they arent making millions. there is so little meat on the bones, its scarey.
its not just the case with pro weekends, but also pca club races, track days, test and tunes.
sometimes we as drivers sit there and look at like "$1200/day for support? what the heck could cost so much.?they must be making a ton".
ive sat on both side sof the table... and can definitely say how little can be made relative to how hard it is to make it.
a guy goes to a 3 day weekend gets charged $1200, 1500/day for support. its not just the 1 or 2 guys covering your car for the couple of days, but:
1. the day or more loading the trailer to lug your stuff there;
2. the hours and hours of preparing, talking to the crew, arranging, making flights, making hotel arranges, car service. its a day of prep atleast.
2. the day or so lost loading the trailer and preparing.
3. the haul down. fuel, wear tear on the rigs;
4. cost of flights down; food during transit.
5. opportunity costs while the entire shop is away at the races;
6. arriving maybe 3pm that day before test and tune, preparing the awning getting the cars fueled and ready.
7. food and hotels all throughout
8. working from 7am to 11pm at night ; this to me is the most brutal part. it was maybe th emost difficult part for me as a team owner. almost always at the track i bring my bike and get in invalueable training, logging miles on the rural roads your find near most of the these tracks. i get back around 8, quick shower and hit the drivers' meeting. the crew though is up at 5, at the track at 6, 630, and they are working like dogs all day in the heat, lugging, schlepping, on their back, dealing with headaches, nonesense, bad parts, wrecked pieces. when the day is over, one by one the cars go on the alignment rack and maybe if the are lucky they swallow some steak around 8,9pm at night. if someone has wrecked or needs a motor change, they'll be doing it all night or late into the night. yeah its the life they've chosen and they love it.
i say this as nicely as i can. sometimes us "drivers" tend to be guys who have a bit more disposable income, we're the ones buying the $2500 tire sets, $1000s in fuel, flights, hotel rooms. we're driving the 150k caymans and having the big fun. yet sometimes we begrudge or take issue that someone would charge $1000day to give us a grea ttime, vs 750. or we second guess that it took 5 hours to prepare the car for a big fun weekend vs what , somehow in our novice heads, we believe shoudl have been 4 hours.
some wallstreet guy is psyched that his business model generated a massive profit of tens of thousands.. the doctors are enjoying their surgerys or patients before heading to the golf range or the race track.... Race shops aint making millions. the best might make good money and have great operations and great equipment. but there aint no millions (maybe other than the race big big pro team that has some crazy coot billionaire seth nieman customer)....race shop owner guys want to make payroll, have a wonderful time at the track, pocket a a few grand for having a whole crew away for 5,6days.
not sure exactly my point, but i guess its that ALL of car racing, is expensive. some is more affordable. but if guys charge $20000 for an ST seat, my guess is that for having an entire team away from the shop for 5,6 days, the owner of the shop might make a grand or two or three. they could probably have made the same 2,3,4grand having their five staff stay in the warehouse working on cars all day for well like 1 day.
its expensive because of the costs, not because of any kind of massive profit. noone's paying for a kids' college tuitiion base don your $25000 rental of an ST seat.
just my two cents.
its not just the case with pro weekends, but also pca club races, track days, test and tunes.
sometimes we as drivers sit there and look at like "$1200/day for support? what the heck could cost so much.?they must be making a ton".
ive sat on both side sof the table... and can definitely say how little can be made relative to how hard it is to make it.
a guy goes to a 3 day weekend gets charged $1200, 1500/day for support. its not just the 1 or 2 guys covering your car for the couple of days, but:
1. the day or more loading the trailer to lug your stuff there;
2. the hours and hours of preparing, talking to the crew, arranging, making flights, making hotel arranges, car service. its a day of prep atleast.
2. the day or so lost loading the trailer and preparing.
3. the haul down. fuel, wear tear on the rigs;
4. cost of flights down; food during transit.
5. opportunity costs while the entire shop is away at the races;
6. arriving maybe 3pm that day before test and tune, preparing the awning getting the cars fueled and ready.
7. food and hotels all throughout
8. working from 7am to 11pm at night ; this to me is the most brutal part. it was maybe th emost difficult part for me as a team owner. almost always at the track i bring my bike and get in invalueable training, logging miles on the rural roads your find near most of the these tracks. i get back around 8, quick shower and hit the drivers' meeting. the crew though is up at 5, at the track at 6, 630, and they are working like dogs all day in the heat, lugging, schlepping, on their back, dealing with headaches, nonesense, bad parts, wrecked pieces. when the day is over, one by one the cars go on the alignment rack and maybe if the are lucky they swallow some steak around 8,9pm at night. if someone has wrecked or needs a motor change, they'll be doing it all night or late into the night. yeah its the life they've chosen and they love it.
i say this as nicely as i can. sometimes us "drivers" tend to be guys who have a bit more disposable income, we're the ones buying the $2500 tire sets, $1000s in fuel, flights, hotel rooms. we're driving the 150k caymans and having the big fun. yet sometimes we begrudge or take issue that someone would charge $1000day to give us a grea ttime, vs 750. or we second guess that it took 5 hours to prepare the car for a big fun weekend vs what , somehow in our novice heads, we believe shoudl have been 4 hours.
some wallstreet guy is psyched that his business model generated a massive profit of tens of thousands.. the doctors are enjoying their surgerys or patients before heading to the golf range or the race track.... Race shops aint making millions. the best might make good money and have great operations and great equipment. but there aint no millions (maybe other than the race big big pro team that has some crazy coot billionaire seth nieman customer)....race shop owner guys want to make payroll, have a wonderful time at the track, pocket a a few grand for having a whole crew away for 5,6days.
not sure exactly my point, but i guess its that ALL of car racing, is expensive. some is more affordable. but if guys charge $20000 for an ST seat, my guess is that for having an entire team away from the shop for 5,6 days, the owner of the shop might make a grand or two or three. they could probably have made the same 2,3,4grand having their five staff stay in the warehouse working on cars all day for well like 1 day.
its expensive because of the costs, not because of any kind of massive profit. noone's paying for a kids' college tuitiion base don your $25000 rental of an ST seat.
just my two cents.
Glad I sold my shop after two decades of that...
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www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
