Ballpark Cost of a weekend in a Conti ST car?
09-24-2013, 10:06 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Ballpark Cost of a weekend in a Conti ST car?
I was wondering if anyone had experience in what it would cost to rent one seat in a Conti ST car next year. GS I know is a little out of the range, but ive been told that a competitive ST seat can be had for around 10k. Is this number accurate? Thank you in advance for any advice and/or info. Most interested in a Road America seat.
09-24-2013, 10:53 PM
#2
Found this in a article on the cost of race seats.
http://www.goaheadtakethewheel.com/b...sional-racing/
Street Tuner (ST)
The Street Tuner (ST) class features high-performance compact cars. Unlike the GS class where V8s are allowed, ST is limited to four and six cylinder engines, although turbocharged and supercharged models are permitted. Engines produce between 170 and 240 horsepower depending upon the car. Popular models in this class include the Mazda RX8, Mazda MX-5, Chevrolet Cobalt SS, Acura TSX, Subaru Legacy, Mini Cooper S, BMW Z4 and Volkswagen GTI. Similar to the GS class, only major modifications allowed in ST are in the area of safety.
Performance: Engines are tuned to produce between 170 and 240 horsepower. Top speed is 135 mph.
Event Rental Cost: It’s possible to find a ride for as little as $6,000, but the car will typically run at the back of the pack. The average tends to be between $7,500 and $12,000 for a decent ride. At the same time, it was not difficult to find teams that charge $15,000 plus.
http://www.goaheadtakethewheel.com/b...sional-racing/
Street Tuner (ST)
The Street Tuner (ST) class features high-performance compact cars. Unlike the GS class where V8s are allowed, ST is limited to four and six cylinder engines, although turbocharged and supercharged models are permitted. Engines produce between 170 and 240 horsepower depending upon the car. Popular models in this class include the Mazda RX8, Mazda MX-5, Chevrolet Cobalt SS, Acura TSX, Subaru Legacy, Mini Cooper S, BMW Z4 and Volkswagen GTI. Similar to the GS class, only major modifications allowed in ST are in the area of safety.
Performance: Engines are tuned to produce between 170 and 240 horsepower. Top speed is 135 mph.
Event Rental Cost: It’s possible to find a ride for as little as $6,000, but the car will typically run at the back of the pack. The average tends to be between $7,500 and $12,000 for a decent ride. At the same time, it was not difficult to find teams that charge $15,000 plus.
09-25-2013, 05:26 AM
#3
Three Wheelin'
i ran ST for a while, have run GTS in WC last 2 years a few races here and there.
a top, winning-capable ST car is going to be 15 to 25 for the entire car, meaning you covering the cost of both seats (endurance race, two drivers min required). if two guys are 'paying', you generally have two guys who are good, but not front-running drivers. many of the teams are a paying driver and then a 'pro pro' who either is being sponsored/paid for by the paying driver, or has sponsorship money/factory money. that kind of paying & pro team is more common. sometimes if a team has a pro who has sponsorship money for X, you can, if you're a good driver, get a seat more cheaply. i think a local team wanted like $12, 14k to run the car at limerock for 1/2 the car, the other driver another good driver. the problem often with the paying & pro setup is that you pay your moola, and the moment you hit the 31 minute mark, you pit and you become a spectator for 2 hours while the pro goes to work. there is something cool about that. but that was the unfun part for me personally. i dont enjoy spectating.
a top, winning-capable ST car is going to be 15 to 25 for the entire car, meaning you covering the cost of both seats (endurance race, two drivers min required). if two guys are 'paying', you generally have two guys who are good, but not front-running drivers. many of the teams are a paying driver and then a 'pro pro' who either is being sponsored/paid for by the paying driver, or has sponsorship money/factory money. that kind of paying & pro team is more common. sometimes if a team has a pro who has sponsorship money for X, you can, if you're a good driver, get a seat more cheaply. i think a local team wanted like $12, 14k to run the car at limerock for 1/2 the car, the other driver another good driver. the problem often with the paying & pro setup is that you pay your moola, and the moment you hit the 31 minute mark, you pit and you become a spectator for 2 hours while the pro goes to work. there is something cool about that. but that was the unfun part for me personally. i dont enjoy spectating.
09-25-2013, 09:49 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
I can confirm SG's #s. I consistently hear mid teens to rent 1 seat in ST. Unless someone knows "you" and "needs you".
What about the Insurance? That is a big part of this unless you wish to carry the liability yourself to write off a race car valued between 75-100K.
And just because you have insurance don't think that you are off the hook. The deductible is extremely high before the insurance even starts to pay out. $8-10K from you from memory.
Also, expect to get fully vettted by the team owner. You need results, references and more references. Money talks and bull**** walks.
Real story. More than 15 years ago, we had a buddy who rented a ride in the 12 hours of Sebring with a top team. He was really good and ready to move up. He go to practice a little in the car. One of the Pro took the start of the race. We have a pit-box right above where our buddy is and can see him sitting on the wall watching the start. Super exciting for him and for us. About 4 laps in, there is a huge accident. The car he is supposed to drive is totaled. Weekend over. Major let down and not an insignificant financial setback for him considering he got zero exposure and seat time.
The point of the story, ask all the questions. Leave nothing un-asked or assumed. Go in with both eyes open, count on the worst happening and be relieved if it turns out better than you feared.
What about the Insurance? That is a big part of this unless you wish to carry the liability yourself to write off a race car valued between 75-100K.
And just because you have insurance don't think that you are off the hook. The deductible is extremely high before the insurance even starts to pay out. $8-10K from you from memory.
Also, expect to get fully vettted by the team owner. You need results, references and more references. Money talks and bull**** walks.
Real story. More than 15 years ago, we had a buddy who rented a ride in the 12 hours of Sebring with a top team. He was really good and ready to move up. He go to practice a little in the car. One of the Pro took the start of the race. We have a pit-box right above where our buddy is and can see him sitting on the wall watching the start. Super exciting for him and for us. About 4 laps in, there is a huge accident. The car he is supposed to drive is totaled. Weekend over. Major let down and not an insignificant financial setback for him considering he got zero exposure and seat time.
The point of the story, ask all the questions. Leave nothing un-asked or assumed. Go in with both eyes open, count on the worst happening and be relieved if it turns out better than you feared.
09-25-2013, 10:03 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
a few other thoughts/comments in this area:
-you might get lucky and last minute some 3 car team has one of the gents bail due to sickness, etc. and they are scrambling to fill a seat. maybe you can get it sub-10k. doubt it, but maybe
- the costs of continental are interesting: about $2500 to register, $1500 fuel (lots of practices and a 21/2 race); 3,4 sets of slicks maybe, pads, rotors, prep expenses. wear and tear on the car. good ST cars like the freedom mazdas are probably $200k to build, no joke. if you think those Hondas are cheap, guess again
-then you have the hauling of the car at 1.5c/mile up and back.-
-and the big expense is the crew. figure you 're going to need 2,3 mechanics per car. and then the big issue with grand am is that its an endurance race so you have a pitstop, thus you need a lollipop guy, a jackman, 2 wheel guys, fuel guy, the firebottle guy, g/a requires a deadman valve on the fuel rig and someont to man it, maybe the crew chief. that's a host of guys to fly there, put in hotesl, feed, and pay for 4,5,6 days. its crazy expensive. SOLID top teams have that full crew the whoel time. other teams piggyback with other GS teams (they pit in different order) or work with a rolex squad that wanst to make a few bucks since they don't race at the same time
world challenge - a GTS car might be 25 to 30k. entry is MORE expensive like 4500 to 5k if you can believe that. you go through 3 slicks. you have to race on what you qualify so there is some 'savings' there. and you can , atleast I was able to, get away with 3 guys. no pit stops so you could go with a club race type crew of a couple of guys.
insurance - I think I valued my cayman at like 180k, 5 deductible cost like 4500; in the case of cayman, im car owner, team owner. when I rented a car once, I had t he shop include the premium in my cost to them, and let THEM deal with tin the insurance co. you wreck it, stroke the 5k deductible check and walk away. otherwise, you're in the middle for weeks. annoying.
IMSA - my guess is $35 to 50k. remember, you're talkinga bout a car that's 2x,3x more expensive to run than a Camaro or cayman or boxster. it gets more expensive real real quick as you edge up into the various levels of series.
-you might get lucky and last minute some 3 car team has one of the gents bail due to sickness, etc. and they are scrambling to fill a seat. maybe you can get it sub-10k. doubt it, but maybe
- the costs of continental are interesting: about $2500 to register, $1500 fuel (lots of practices and a 21/2 race); 3,4 sets of slicks maybe, pads, rotors, prep expenses. wear and tear on the car. good ST cars like the freedom mazdas are probably $200k to build, no joke. if you think those Hondas are cheap, guess again
-then you have the hauling of the car at 1.5c/mile up and back.-
-and the big expense is the crew. figure you 're going to need 2,3 mechanics per car. and then the big issue with grand am is that its an endurance race so you have a pitstop, thus you need a lollipop guy, a jackman, 2 wheel guys, fuel guy, the firebottle guy, g/a requires a deadman valve on the fuel rig and someont to man it, maybe the crew chief. that's a host of guys to fly there, put in hotesl, feed, and pay for 4,5,6 days. its crazy expensive. SOLID top teams have that full crew the whoel time. other teams piggyback with other GS teams (they pit in different order) or work with a rolex squad that wanst to make a few bucks since they don't race at the same time
world challenge - a GTS car might be 25 to 30k. entry is MORE expensive like 4500 to 5k if you can believe that. you go through 3 slicks. you have to race on what you qualify so there is some 'savings' there. and you can , atleast I was able to, get away with 3 guys. no pit stops so you could go with a club race type crew of a couple of guys.
insurance - I think I valued my cayman at like 180k, 5 deductible cost like 4500; in the case of cayman, im car owner, team owner. when I rented a car once, I had t he shop include the premium in my cost to them, and let THEM deal with tin the insurance co. you wreck it, stroke the 5k deductible check and walk away. otherwise, you're in the middle for weeks. annoying.
IMSA - my guess is $35 to 50k. remember, you're talkinga bout a car that's 2x,3x more expensive to run than a Camaro or cayman or boxster. it gets more expensive real real quick as you edge up into the various levels of series.
I can confirm SG's #s. I consistently hear mid teens to rent 1 seat in ST. Unless someone knows "you" and "needs you".
What about the Insurance? That is a big part of this unless you wish to carry the liability yourself to write off a race car valued between 75-100K.
And just because you have insurance don't think that you are off the hook. The deductible is extremely high before the insurance even starts to pay out. $8-10K from you from memory.
Also, expect to get fully vettted by the team owner. You need results, references and more references. Money talks and bull**** walks.
Real story. More than 15 years ago, we had a buddy who rented a ride in the 12 hours of Sebring with a top team. He was really good and ready to move up. He go to practice a little in the car. One of the Pro took the start of the race. We have a pit-box right above where our buddy is and can see him sitting on the wall watching the start. Super exciting for him and for us. About 4 laps in, there is a huge accident. The car he is supposed to drive is totaled. Weekend over. Major let down and not an insignificant financial setback for him considering he got zero exposure and seat time.
The point of the story, ask all the questions. Leave nothing un-asked or assumed. Go in with both eyes open, count on the worst happening and be relieved if it turns out better than you feared.
What about the Insurance? That is a big part of this unless you wish to carry the liability yourself to write off a race car valued between 75-100K.
And just because you have insurance don't think that you are off the hook. The deductible is extremely high before the insurance even starts to pay out. $8-10K from you from memory.
Also, expect to get fully vettted by the team owner. You need results, references and more references. Money talks and bull**** walks.
Real story. More than 15 years ago, we had a buddy who rented a ride in the 12 hours of Sebring with a top team. He was really good and ready to move up. He go to practice a little in the car. One of the Pro took the start of the race. We have a pit-box right above where our buddy is and can see him sitting on the wall watching the start. Super exciting for him and for us. About 4 laps in, there is a huge accident. The car he is supposed to drive is totaled. Weekend over. Major let down and not an insignificant financial setback for him considering he got zero exposure and seat time.
The point of the story, ask all the questions. Leave nothing un-asked or assumed. Go in with both eyes open, count on the worst happening and be relieved if it turns out better than you feared.
09-25-2013, 10:08 AM
#7
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^^THIS^^
Think carefully about what your idea of "fun" is...
Think carefully about what your idea of "fun" is...
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09-25-2013, 12:57 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
I concur in general with the info above, including the horror stories. If you're looking to rent for a single race, don't expect to get priority treatment. You can think of the "seat" price, or the whole car. You can rent a single seat in the $10k + range, but you will be paired with a co-driver you likely don't know.
Have fun! Conti Challenge is the most competitive sports car racing in the US, in my opinion.
Have fun! Conti Challenge is the most competitive sports car racing in the US, in my opinion.
09-25-2013, 05:32 PM
#9
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I waited until the last minute and got a great deal for $8k on a Bimmer. Had a blast at the opener at Daytona (Koni). It was one of the best experiences I've ever had. I bought 50 Hot Wheels cars and handed them out to kids when the autograph session was held. They were a huge hit and I signed them and put my number on each car.
Once you get license, pay fees and get safety equipment the price jumps a bit. It you take out the lead GS Mustang in T3 it jumps a bit more.
Once you get license, pay fees and get safety equipment the price jumps a bit. It you take out the lead GS Mustang in T3 it jumps a bit more.
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09-25-2013, 11:56 PM
#12
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks guys. I appreciate the input. Its been a long time coming that I have wanted to drive in the Conti Series or before that the "Koni" Series. The problem was funds and opening two businesses doesnt help that much at first. I enjoy the idea of having to be challenged and drive against some of the best drivers in the world.
I agree that its smarter to just seek out a good team instead of saving costs with a team that simply can not compete. I have a few friends that have raced Grand Am in both GS and ST. For me a PCA race weekend with two sets of tires, pre race maintenance, two sets of pads, maybe rotors, fuel etc etc can cost 5-6k. I figure id gladly trade two weekends next year for one conti weekend. Hell id trade three weekends for a conti weekend.
My fear is the situation a few of you mentioned with the pro driver wrecking the car and me being out all of the money with no seat time at all. I understand its racing, but the attorney in me would want something in there asking that should that happen id be invited back for a second race at a comfortably discounted cost. Thanks again for all of the advice! Any teams that people recommend one to reach out to? Id be happy to provide references if any are on the forum.
I agree that its smarter to just seek out a good team instead of saving costs with a team that simply can not compete. I have a few friends that have raced Grand Am in both GS and ST. For me a PCA race weekend with two sets of tires, pre race maintenance, two sets of pads, maybe rotors, fuel etc etc can cost 5-6k. I figure id gladly trade two weekends next year for one conti weekend. Hell id trade three weekends for a conti weekend.
My fear is the situation a few of you mentioned with the pro driver wrecking the car and me being out all of the money with no seat time at all. I understand its racing, but the attorney in me would want something in there asking that should that happen id be invited back for a second race at a comfortably discounted cost. Thanks again for all of the advice! Any teams that people recommend one to reach out to? Id be happy to provide references if any are on the forum.
09-26-2013, 08:14 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
We (Automtrics) have been racing in the conti series the last 2 seasons in a ST class Porsche Boxster. It is extremely competitive and a lot of fun. Consistently large entry numbers and top level pro teams make the series one of the best in the country. In ST there are probably 15 cars every weekend that are capable of a top 3. It is side by side, wheel to wheel the entire time. Like stated above it is not cheap racing. The cost to run a car the right way is not much cheaper than running a car in GT. The crew to run is basically the same in any class. The tire and car operating cost is the only thing cheaper. The current top level ST cars are very well developed. It has gotten a little crazy cost wise. Bosch ECU's and ABS, exotic engine builders (Roush, Dinan, RealTime ect..) I have heard the Honda engines are getting rebuilt every 20-25 hrs. Our Boxster is an extremely nice car. You literally can buy an early 997 cup for what it cost to build. The series is planning on changes for 2014 that will hopefully limit some of the crazy costs to be competitive. It will be interesting to see what next year brings.
What I would suggest depends on what your goal and budget is. A competitive race strategy may be the first driver gets out after 30-40 minutes. If your goal is to do as well as possible than seat time may be compromised. If you just want to go have a good time then share a car with another driver with similar goals and try to split the practice and race time down the middle. With a little luck you may end up with a top 15 finish. Most teams are looking for season long commitments so single race seats are not too common any more. A single race spot with a pro and car that is capable of winning is very hard to find.
Let me know if have any more questions. autometrics@me.com We are planning on running in the series again next season. We are hoping the officials will allow a new car we are proposing and are working on adding a second car to the team. The rumored schedule looks pretty good. (The conti series will continue to run along side the new USCR events) It really is one of the most competitive series you can run in. It is not the cheapest way to go racing but it is one of the best series out there.
What I would suggest depends on what your goal and budget is. A competitive race strategy may be the first driver gets out after 30-40 minutes. If your goal is to do as well as possible than seat time may be compromised. If you just want to go have a good time then share a car with another driver with similar goals and try to split the practice and race time down the middle. With a little luck you may end up with a top 15 finish. Most teams are looking for season long commitments so single race seats are not too common any more. A single race spot with a pro and car that is capable of winning is very hard to find.
Let me know if have any more questions. autometrics@me.com We are planning on running in the series again next season. We are hoping the officials will allow a new car we are proposing and are working on adding a second car to the team. The rumored schedule looks pretty good. (The conti series will continue to run along side the new USCR events) It really is one of the most competitive series you can run in. It is not the cheapest way to go racing but it is one of the best series out there.
09-26-2013, 01:18 PM
#15
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Video wasn't working, 
Anyway, probably one of the reasons why I paid 8k vs. 12k.
However, I did record Speed channel and it does show the 24 Bimmer taking out the stang.
Not my best drive. I will see if I can transfer the vid to something uploadable. (Is that a word?)
You guys might recognize my co-driver, Cory Friedman.
Unfortunately, I did not hand him over a car worthy of driving when I came into the pits. Too bad also, I was as high as 6th place at the time and Cory was running at least top 5 with his times. If anyone is ever considering a drive with Autometrics in Grand AM, Cory is top-notch and a true pro. He is always fast and has incredible racecraft. 
Anyway, probably one of the reasons why I paid 8k vs. 12k. However, I did record Speed channel and it does show the 24 Bimmer taking out the stang.
Not my best drive. I will see if I can transfer the vid to something uploadable. (Is that a word?)You guys might recognize my co-driver, Cory Friedman.
Unfortunately, I did not hand him over a car worthy of driving when I came into the pits. Too bad also, I was as high as 6th place at the time and Cory was running at least top 5 with his times. If anyone is ever considering a drive with Autometrics in Grand AM, Cory is top-notch and a true pro. He is always fast and has incredible racecraft.