Michael Stewart, PCA 'racer' hits another car (again!)
10-16-2013, 11:54 PM
#106
[QUOTE=jbossolo;10833469]Rick, believe it or not, PCA's stance on non-PCA events is: "not our problem".
Not passing judgment on something that is out of your jurisdiction in appropriate.
For obvious reasons. However it may well be different from a "not our problem stance".
Many of the Test and Tunes run under DE rules at Club Races are PCA events. Any incidents, car to car and/or single car will have an incident reports filed.
Not passing judgment on something that is out of your jurisdiction in appropriate.
For obvious reasons. However it may well be different from a "not our problem stance".
Many of the Test and Tunes run under DE rules at Club Races are PCA events. Any incidents, car to car and/or single car will have an incident reports filed.
10-17-2013, 12:13 AM
#107
There is a "list", shared among organizations in the US road racing community. It includes vintage and club race sanctioning bodies. I have seen that list. Actually, I have a copy of that current list (no, I won't send you a copy...it's "adults only"). It describes the various asshattery of specific licensed drivers, including suspensions, probations and outright bans. It's fascinating reading.
I'm not quite sure if FIA member organizations are obliged to honor penalities levied by other FIA organizations, like AHL, IHL and OHL's are obliged to honor suspensions from the National Hockey League...but it's sure informative to know who's a basket of idiocy. And...most motorsports sanctioning bodies in the US include language in their event rules and entry forms that state that the event organizers have the right to refuse entries.
Like I said...fascinating reading.
I'm not quite sure if FIA member organizations are obliged to honor penalities levied by other FIA organizations, like AHL, IHL and OHL's are obliged to honor suspensions from the National Hockey League...but it's sure informative to know who's a basket of idiocy. And...most motorsports sanctioning bodies in the US include language in their event rules and entry forms that state that the event organizers have the right to refuse entries.
Like I said...fascinating reading.
On a serious note, I don't think it is appropriate to discuss incidents like this on a forum, in the detail and acrimony that is being generated. Now, an official who is stating general actions and procedures that are taken or considered for this type of thing without singling out someone, I have no issue with that. Discussions should not occur simply because someone was upset and posted on a forum, where we can tell exactly who the persons involved are. I struggle with what to write, but if the other driver is fine with it, than so be it, but the communication should happen some other way, I would think.
10-17-2013, 07:02 AM
#108
Drifting
Me and the Hitman are toast...
On a serious note, I don't think it is appropriate to discuss incidents like this on a forum, in the detail and acrimony that is being generated. Now, an official who is stating general actions and procedures that are taken or considered for this type of thing without singling out someone, I have no issue with that. Discussions should not occur simply because someone was upset and posted on a forum, where we can tell exactly who the persons involved are. I struggle with what to write, but if the other driver is fine with it, than so be it, but the communication should happen some other way, I would think.
On a serious note, I don't think it is appropriate to discuss incidents like this on a forum, in the detail and acrimony that is being generated. Now, an official who is stating general actions and procedures that are taken or considered for this type of thing without singling out someone, I have no issue with that. Discussions should not occur simply because someone was upset and posted on a forum, where we can tell exactly who the persons involved are. I struggle with what to write, but if the other driver is fine with it, than so be it, but the communication should happen some other way, I would think.
Thank you RL.
10-17-2013, 09:13 AM
#109
Drifting
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Not passing judgment on something that is out of your jurisdiction in appropriate.
For obvious reasons. However it may well be different from a "not our problem stance".
For obvious reasons. However it may well be different from a "not our problem stance".
They know the guy is a liability, so if something happens, they are liable for not having taken corrective measures, IMO.
10-17-2013, 02:20 PM
#110
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Me and the Hitman are toast...
Discussions should not occur simply because someone was upset and posted on a forum, where we can tell exactly who the persons involved are. I struggle with what to write, but if the other driver is fine with it, than so be it, but the communication should happen some other way, I would think.
Discussions should not occur simply because someone was upset and posted on a forum, where we can tell exactly who the persons involved are. I struggle with what to write, but if the other driver is fine with it, than so be it, but the communication should happen some other way, I would think.
This is a different issue. I named him here because we now have confirmed reports that between May 2013 and October 2013 he was at fault in 3 different car to car collisions and also hit a wall in a single car accident.
If someone was running through your neighborhood with a machete, wouldn't you want a heads up about that?
10-17-2013, 02:25 PM
#111
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
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If it were not for this forum almost none of us would know about Michael Stewart and his multiple crashes into other cars recently at race tracks where we all participate. I am damn glad for this forum and for this thread. We have seen posts from people that were at the events where this guy crashed into others as well the OP that is one of the victims. This is also where we can voice concerns as a community about this situation and discuss what can be done about it. This is ALL information I want to know.
Thank you RL.
Thank you RL.
On the other hand it seems that PCA was on to him befor he was outed here so to speak. I remember a case quite a while ago with similar conditions but for less impacts. In that case PCA took action when the facts were presented. If fact they were already onto the guy and taking action when we griped. Looks like the OP had more than enough info to go directly to PCA CR as a start. If that did not produce results then drag the guy into the light.
Guys like this come along from time to time and are dealt with. He is not the first or the last of his type. Why it took so long for this guy I don't know. I think this is the first thread like this I have seen on RL. Where the person being called out was not "here" to start with and had a part in the thread. Unusual thread. Strong reasons for action for sure but how public to start is not so clear.
10-17-2013, 03:45 PM
#113
Burning Brakes
unless the guy is chopping off heads then i just want a call not a heads up.
Agree with the majority i would much rather know about this than have my car destroyed on a test and tune... (sebring test and tune was nuts this year with the caymens basically racing and "not playing well with others")
i may also be more in tune to the warning since he seems to have issues with E cars....
Agree with the majority i would much rather know about this than have my car destroyed on a test and tune... (sebring test and tune was nuts this year with the caymens basically racing and "not playing well with others")
i may also be more in tune to the warning since he seems to have issues with E cars....
10-17-2013, 05:24 PM
#115
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
unless the guy is chopping off heads then i just want a call not a heads up.
Agree with the majority i would much rather know about this than have my car destroyed on a test and tune... (sebring test and tune was nuts this year with the caymens basically racing and "not playing well with others")
i may also be more in tune to the warning since he seems to have issues with E cars....
Agree with the majority i would much rather know about this than have my car destroyed on a test and tune... (sebring test and tune was nuts this year with the caymens basically racing and "not playing well with others")
i may also be more in tune to the warning since he seems to have issues with E cars....
Just to be clear I am not saying don't yell fire just do so after pulling the alarm and calling the fire department. My car gets wadded I am walking for a good while and the ham fisted hack driving it puts it at plenty of risk as is.
10-17-2013, 07:34 PM
#116
Rennlist Member
Does anyone know this person?
Could they get him to "explain" his side of the story here?
Until then (and being an owner of an E race car) I appreciate jakermc's "heads up"......
Could they get him to "explain" his side of the story here?
Until then (and being an owner of an E race car) I appreciate jakermc's "heads up"......
10-18-2013, 10:37 AM
#117
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From my perspective GT3 racing in PCA has destroyed the "gentlemen racing" spirit and behavior that was once there and, is still alive in the lower classes. Sad. In the GT3 Cup championship (not PCA) the situation is worse. It seems as if we have deep pocket low skill racers in the mix who's only race strategy is dive bombing and taking the other guy out.
I would certainly be in favor of any good ideas as to how to make sure this doesn't happen but I haven't heard many. The best I've heard, from a fellow Rennlister, is to have a group of drivers in the Cup Car class that are the "second level" of approval for someone to race in the group. As good a job as PCA CR does at licensing (nothing but love for Susan, Brian, Vicky, Bruce, etc), qualifying for a license is a bit different than being qualified to race in this group. I recently had my own incident with someone who would have benefited from this second level of approval. We could also have a separate Red Group driver meeting immediately after the regular driver meeting to address any issues regarding drivers in the group.
I have ZERO issue discussing someone's (or my own...) problems on the track face to face or going to a Steward. There are people on here who I've had these direct conversations with and we're all better off for it.
10-18-2013, 12:11 PM
#119
Addict
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I have withheld any comments although I have been reading this thread with serious interest I read GT3DE's comments and feel the need to express complete agreement, if this forum is not allowed or encouraged to allow a "heads up" on any topic that may be of interest and concern to its' members then we have lost a valuable part of our community.
Thanks for the info as always I will make up my own mind based on the facts presented.
Rich
Thanks for the info as always I will make up my own mind based on the facts presented.
Rich
10-18-2013, 12:22 PM
#120
Rennlist Member
My 2 cents. This guy is more common then you guys know. There are guys like this driving all over the country.
The problem is that cars are too fast today and the learning curves are too steep. I have said it for years and as an insurer of HPDE Physical Damage/ long time racer/instructor I can tell you guys it’s getting worse not better. I think that we all have to reevaluate how drivers are promoted through the ranks . Its way to easy to get signed off to solo ,it’s too easy to become an “instructor” and its way to easy to get a race license. I have personally seen a guy that crashed during a racing school get his license….ridiculous. Ask your local sanctioning body how often they don’t give a racing license to somebody going through there school? Not often We all have seen instructors that can’t even drive the right line themselves, how can they teach it if they can’t do it?
I know it’s a fine line for our sanctioning bodies. They want to keep participants happy and let them move through the ranks as fast as they want but if people are crashing more because of this then they doing more harm than good to their events. Eventually less people will partake. Let’s face it crashing is be bad for business. The entire mindset for HPDE and racing licensing has to change . It has to be a privilege to move up through the ranks based on one’s ability and willingness to get better. It’s not a right. Today street cars are faster than race cars. I myself have a street car that is faster than my 996 Cup Car . How freaking scary is that ???
We all have to re think where the sport is heading and how to make it safer. Its starts at the ground level with much better education and much stricter driver ability requirements.
The problem is that cars are too fast today and the learning curves are too steep. I have said it for years and as an insurer of HPDE Physical Damage/ long time racer/instructor I can tell you guys it’s getting worse not better. I think that we all have to reevaluate how drivers are promoted through the ranks . Its way to easy to get signed off to solo ,it’s too easy to become an “instructor” and its way to easy to get a race license. I have personally seen a guy that crashed during a racing school get his license….ridiculous. Ask your local sanctioning body how often they don’t give a racing license to somebody going through there school? Not often We all have seen instructors that can’t even drive the right line themselves, how can they teach it if they can’t do it?
I know it’s a fine line for our sanctioning bodies. They want to keep participants happy and let them move through the ranks as fast as they want but if people are crashing more because of this then they doing more harm than good to their events. Eventually less people will partake. Let’s face it crashing is be bad for business. The entire mindset for HPDE and racing licensing has to change . It has to be a privilege to move up through the ranks based on one’s ability and willingness to get better. It’s not a right. Today street cars are faster than race cars. I myself have a street car that is faster than my 996 Cup Car . How freaking scary is that ???
We all have to re think where the sport is heading and how to make it safer. Its starts at the ground level with much better education and much stricter driver ability requirements.