Showtime went too far?
08-11-2014, 12:58 AM
#31
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Based on the positions of the cars during the wreck, I really don't believe Tony Stewart even knew there was some type of problem. It simply looked like TS and Ward barely hit and a spin occurred but don't think he (TS) knew it happened and certainly didn't think there would be someone midtrack.
The visabilily with a dark suit against a dark sky and dirt coupled with those big wings on both sides of the car and dirt being flung all over the visor wouldn't lend to "great visability".
Based on the lifeless body lying on the track, there is no doubt that death came instantly.
My opinion is that a DA would be hesititant to file murder or manslaughter changes in this case and an even harder task to get all 12 jurors to see it that same way.....
This event will probably change the mindset of all "those" types of guys that get out of their cars to show displeasure with how an incident went down including those infamous Tony Stewart throwing of helmets at cars etc.
The visabilily with a dark suit against a dark sky and dirt coupled with those big wings on both sides of the car and dirt being flung all over the visor wouldn't lend to "great visability".
Based on the lifeless body lying on the track, there is no doubt that death came instantly.
My opinion is that a DA would be hesititant to file murder or manslaughter changes in this case and an even harder task to get all 12 jurors to see it that same way.....
This event will probably change the mindset of all "those" types of guys that get out of their cars to show displeasure with how an incident went down including those infamous Tony Stewart throwing of helmets at cars etc.
08-11-2014, 05:37 AM
#32
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
This is just that showtime -behaviour I was referring to in the Topic. IMO it has been favoured on TV coverages too, with multiple repeats and slo-mos about fistfights. WWF wrestling is acompletely different "sport" (in quotes b/c it's not a sport at all...) and that behaviour has no place in motorsports. Sanctioning bodies should have taken action earlier, now there's one man down. Mostly because of his own stupidity. Darwin rules...
08-11-2014, 09:29 AM
#33
Race Car
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the power of the internet. Powered by clueless idiots who are absolutely righteous based on vague video from cross-track (a looong way away), and the worst possible angle.
If it hasn't been stated fully-enough - Savyboy...you're an idiot.
PHT
If it hasn't been stated fully-enough - Savyboy...you're an idiot.
PHT
I only saw 1 short video, but the initial incident looked like a typical dirt track contact, and that didn't look intentional to me.
The lead car to TS had to have blocked his vision.
A sad and totally avoidable accident
08-11-2014, 09:50 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
08-11-2014, 10:23 AM
#35
I'm in....
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It's been twenty five years since I raced one but they haven't changed that much. Looks to me like Stewart went high to keep the kid behind him under yellow. Very common. Why the kid didn't lift sooner instead of putting himself in the wall, I don't know. Yes, you have to maintain speed under yellow to bunch up the pack but there was a car spun out that would likely have required a push truck so there was plenty of time.
08-11-2014, 12:18 PM
#39
I am not a lawyer, but I find it very hard to believe that there is basis for a legitimate criminal suit.
A defense attorney could call 100 experienced racers as expert witnesses that would pretty much mirror the opinions stated by the experienced racers on this site... an unfortunate accident caused by poor judgement.
Although personally, I think TS is fully capable of losing his temper and swerving to intimidate the victim, suspicion is not proof of intent.
I suspect that in the absence of a confession by TS (which ain't ever going to happen), we'll never know. This will probably result in a sizable civil settlement with the family, and a dark cloud of suspicion hovering over TS forever.
Hopefully this will result in some needed culture change.
A defense attorney could call 100 experienced racers as expert witnesses that would pretty much mirror the opinions stated by the experienced racers on this site... an unfortunate accident caused by poor judgement.
Although personally, I think TS is fully capable of losing his temper and swerving to intimidate the victim, suspicion is not proof of intent.
I suspect that in the absence of a confession by TS (which ain't ever going to happen), we'll never know. This will probably result in a sizable civil settlement with the family, and a dark cloud of suspicion hovering over TS forever.
Hopefully this will result in some needed culture change.
08-11-2014, 01:04 PM
#40
Drifting
I am not a lawyer, but I find it very hard to believe that there is basis for a legitimate criminal suit.
A defense attorney could call 100 experienced racers as expert witnesses that would pretty much mirror the opinions stated by the experienced racers on this site... an unfortunate accident caused by poor judgement.
Although personally, I think TS is fully capable of losing his temper and swerving to intimidate the victim, suspicion is not proof of intent.
I suspect that in the absence of a confession by TS (which ain't ever going to happen), we'll never know. This will probably result in a sizable civil settlement with the family, and a dark cloud of suspicion hovering over TS forever.
Hopefully this will result in some needed culture change.
A defense attorney could call 100 experienced racers as expert witnesses that would pretty much mirror the opinions stated by the experienced racers on this site... an unfortunate accident caused by poor judgement.
Although personally, I think TS is fully capable of losing his temper and swerving to intimidate the victim, suspicion is not proof of intent.
I suspect that in the absence of a confession by TS (which ain't ever going to happen), we'll never know. This will probably result in a sizable civil settlement with the family, and a dark cloud of suspicion hovering over TS forever.
Hopefully this will result in some needed culture change.
We've (Road Course Racers) have been taught since day one to stay in our cars until a corner worker is present. This was engrained in us at grassroots racing level and is still evident at the pro level. On the flip side (categorizing here) "Circle track" guys act out like this all the time from the pro level on down and it has for the most part been condoned. Hopefully if anything good can come of this it'll be a change in rules.
08-11-2014, 01:55 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Why would Tony have lost his temper in this case? His car was undamaged and still racing after Ward went into the wall. Tony had nothing to be mad about.
08-11-2014, 02:17 PM
#42
Excerpt from a very good article.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/yes-ton...e-whole-story/
What has happened since the tragedy is that a video taken from the stands showing the entirety of the tragedy has made the rounds, including on national TV. The video is polarizing, and viewers largely believe one of three things: Stewart was trying to avoid Ward, Stewart was trying to scare him by brushing him back, or Stewart was trying to kill him outright, the latter of which a stunning percentage of readers have posted in various comments sections around the internet, including those attached to my original story. They contend that Stewart should be charged with manslaughter at best, murder at worst. I find this astounding. Even though there was no contact between Stewart’s car and Ward’s, that Ward knew better than to try to run on the outside with a faster car in that corner, and that it is likely Stewart had no idea Ward even crashed at all, why would Stewart still purposely try to hit him?
http://blog.caranddriver.com/yes-ton...e-whole-story/
08-11-2014, 02:57 PM
#43
Race Car
yt video of incident
I find this astounding. Even though there was no contact between Stewart’s car and Ward’s, Ward knew better than to try to drive on the outside with a faster car in that corner, and it is likely that Stewart had no idea Ward even crashed at all— why would Stewart still purposely try to hit him?
typo?
There was contact, initially when TS went wide and his RR touched the LF of wards car, spinning him out.
Intentional? I dunno, but that's racing.
I'll bet he knew there was contact... I do hear a engine rev before ward gets hit, but no idea who's car or why...
-Question: the yellow flag waving is in the stands? or an official caution flag?
(there is a starter tower just in front of the waving yellow at the very beginning (:01 - :02) of the video)...
I find this astounding. Even though there was no contact between Stewart’s car and Ward’s, Ward knew better than to try to drive on the outside with a faster car in that corner, and it is likely that Stewart had no idea Ward even crashed at all— why would Stewart still purposely try to hit him?
typo?
There was contact, initially when TS went wide and his RR touched the LF of wards car, spinning him out.
Intentional? I dunno, but that's racing.
I'll bet he knew there was contact... I do hear a engine rev before ward gets hit, but no idea who's car or why...
-Question: the yellow flag waving is in the stands? or an official caution flag?
(there is a starter tower just in front of the waving yellow at the very beginning (:01 - :02) of the video)...
Last edited by mrbill_fl; 08-11-2014 at 09:28 PM.
08-11-2014, 03:04 PM
#44
I don't see contact, if there was any it was incidental, TS's car doesn't move an inch off line. The cars don't look that close, Ward ran out of track on the outside, looks like he tried to correct but there wasn't enough room between TS and the wall.
08-11-2014, 03:32 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Agreed. I don't see any contact either.