E-Stock
08-13-2014, 11:01 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
I can assure all of you (who don't race in E class): there are NO mediocre drivers in maximally prepared E cars winning E class races.
08-13-2014, 11:12 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
GTC3 (996 Cup) is by far my all time favorite car to drive and race. As Randy said, it is a major financial commitment to be competitive, mostly on tires. There is great talent in GTC3 as well (along with 4 and 5). Also, like SPB, a lot less variance based on $$$ spent.
Again, not to be argumentative, but I think you are saying two different things here too. IMO, C3 has had disappointing registration numbers the last few years, even at the big races. And the C3 cars are now stuck in the bottom of the "fast" group getting lapped by all the GTA2 cars.
08-13-2014, 11:17 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
With all due respect VR, you contradicted your argument with this statement. And of course I know who you are referring to with this perfect example.
I can assure all of you (who don't race in E class): there are NO mediocre drivers in maximally prepared E cars winning E class races.
I can assure all of you (who don't race in E class): there are NO mediocre drivers in maximally prepared E cars winning E class races.
Again, not to be argumentative, but I think you are saying two different things here too. IMO, C3 has had disappointing registration numbers the last few years, even at the big races. And the C3 cars are now stuck in the bottom of the "fast" group getting lapped by all the GTA2 cars.
08-13-2014, 11:30 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
08-13-2014, 12:08 PM
#21
Hey, Danny-boy,
Allow me to opine a bit, if you will, about upsides/downsides..
You will find some of THE best racing talent in PCA in E. I have been priveleged to work with a number of the very top drivers in this class nationwide. So your talent would fit right in, if you could just learn how to lose the skirt. The challenge is that the "stock" in E stock is euphemistic. PCA has allowed SO much scope-creep in this (and other) letter classes, it is comical. So in many ways, it has become a pure money class despite the packaging as a "stock" class. And so you have to pay to play, especially with regard to suspensions. There are exceptions: I have one client in E who has not spent $10,000+ for a high end remote reservoir suspension, and yet he kicks serious *** in a lesser car due to pure raw talent and mindset.
SPB also has some of THE finest racers in PCA, with a lot less scope creep. There is near parity in cars, with only minor variances. The folks whho know set up, and tires, and their own talent, shine. I have also been priveleged to have worked & work with some of the very best SPB drivers in PCA.
GTC3 (996 Cup) is by far my all time favorite car to drive and race. It's pure and fast and a blast and a half. I have a number of C3 clients as well. As Randy said, it is a major financial commitment to be competitive, mostly on tires. There is great talent in GTC3 as well (along with 4 and 5). Also, like SPB, a lot less variance based on $$$ spent.
JMHO...
Allow me to opine a bit, if you will, about upsides/downsides..
You will find some of THE best racing talent in PCA in E. I have been priveleged to work with a number of the very top drivers in this class nationwide. So your talent would fit right in, if you could just learn how to lose the skirt. The challenge is that the "stock" in E stock is euphemistic. PCA has allowed SO much scope-creep in this (and other) letter classes, it is comical. So in many ways, it has become a pure money class despite the packaging as a "stock" class. And so you have to pay to play, especially with regard to suspensions. There are exceptions: I have one client in E who has not spent $10,000+ for a high end remote reservoir suspension, and yet he kicks serious *** in a lesser car due to pure raw talent and mindset.
SPB also has some of THE finest racers in PCA, with a lot less scope creep. There is near parity in cars, with only minor variances. The folks whho know set up, and tires, and their own talent, shine. I have also been priveleged to have worked & work with some of the very best SPB drivers in PCA.
GTC3 (996 Cup) is by far my all time favorite car to drive and race. It's pure and fast and a blast and a half. I have a number of C3 clients as well. As Randy said, it is a major financial commitment to be competitive, mostly on tires. There is great talent in GTC3 as well (along with 4 and 5). Also, like SPB, a lot less variance based on $$$ spent.
JMHO...
My whole mission is to get in a class where it is not an arms race and scope creep is limited. AND I want to enjoy driving the car. The transition from my GT4 car to Skirtster has been challenging, but the car is sterile compared to what I was used to. I fear a move to spec skirtster will be even worse, although I am thoroughly intrigued by the number of cars.
Are you sure that the creep in e-class is as bad as you say?? Seems to me that one of the top runners is a Scrut - I would think this would help to limit creep (what i would refer to as offing cheating
)
08-13-2014, 12:14 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
haha this thread is getting better by the minute
E is great....drivers are respectful of one another and while yes the car can make a big difference (as with any class/letter or not) you can do well with a car that isnt a marvel of engineering..
granted yes there are some cars with some serious money in them and a good driver and they are VERY hard to catch...there are others as mentioned that dont and seem to be pretty close...most developed car with the best driver should be the fastest REGARDLESS Of class etc...but i think E has a good fairly level mix....
Look at the race Fred and I had this year at watkins...holy crap that was fun...i mean i woulda been smiling even if i didnt somehow win....very respectful driver, gave room when it was due (sometimes when it was not but haha), no blocking, looked out for each other when it got hairy etc.....i think almost all the regulars in the E crowd are like that. (Except GaryR hahahaha)
Just look at the list for Road America....HOLY CRAP TALENT>>>>>i tihnk that might be the race of the year....one day ill make that long road trip.
Dan, i sent an email to a friend and told him to get in touch with you as he was thinking of selling his car, ....
P.S. i think the scope creep is more of the "stock" label with jrz/motons etc in a 1980s car....and for all those asking to remove a passenger seat. MUHAHA
E is great....drivers are respectful of one another and while yes the car can make a big difference (as with any class/letter or not) you can do well with a car that isnt a marvel of engineering..
granted yes there are some cars with some serious money in them and a good driver and they are VERY hard to catch...there are others as mentioned that dont and seem to be pretty close...most developed car with the best driver should be the fastest REGARDLESS Of class etc...but i think E has a good fairly level mix....
Look at the race Fred and I had this year at watkins...holy crap that was fun...i mean i woulda been smiling even if i didnt somehow win....very respectful driver, gave room when it was due (sometimes when it was not but haha), no blocking, looked out for each other when it got hairy etc.....i think almost all the regulars in the E crowd are like that. (Except GaryR hahahaha)
Just look at the list for Road America....HOLY CRAP TALENT>>>>>i tihnk that might be the race of the year....one day ill make that long road trip.
Dan, i sent an email to a friend and told him to get in touch with you as he was thinking of selling his car, ....
P.S. i think the scope creep is more of the "stock" label with jrz/motons etc in a 1980s car....and for all those asking to remove a passenger seat. MUHAHA
08-13-2014, 12:33 PM
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I don't care what class you pick, you're going to spend $$ to make the car competitive. Even in the spec classes, you're going to spend money to maximize to the extent of the rules and then buy tires like crazy to have that edge or to at least compete with those at the front.
If you are not the competitive type and are happy just to be there going around the track, you don't need to spend the money. I foolishly thought I could do just that. I couldn't. Thousands of $ later....let's just say if I'm not at or near the front of the class, it's not the car.
If you are not the competitive type and are happy just to be there going around the track, you don't need to spend the money. I foolishly thought I could do just that. I couldn't. Thousands of $ later....let's just say if I'm not at or near the front of the class, it's not the car.
08-13-2014, 12:40 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
IMO, pretty much all of PCA racing has become an arm's race to some extent (maybe with the exception of SP1-2). But it's all relative. I see no reason to single out E class.
Bottom line: the guys winning big races in most classes are all very good drivers who are usually driving very good cars. A $$$ E or F or G car doesn't just drive itself.
And as far as "rules creep" goes, with the exception of remote res shocks in stock classes, the rules changes since I've been racing (2009) have been good ones. They have given us better, safer, race cars with minimal cost increase. A custom Steve Wong chip is just not that expensive. And neither is removing interior trim.
08-13-2014, 01:08 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
IMO, pretty much all of PCA racing has become an arm's race to some extent (maybe with the exception of SP1-2). But it's all relative. I see no reason to single out E class.
Bottom line: the guys winning big races in most classes are all very good drivers who are usually driving very good cars. A $$$ E or F or G car doesn't just drive itself.
And as far as "rules creep" goes, with the exception of remote res shocks in stock classes, the rules changes since I've been racing (2009) have been good ones. They have given us better, safer, race cars with minimal cost increase. A custom Steve Wong chip is just not that expensive. And neither is removing interior trim.
What do you want for your Boxster and where can I see it locally?
08-13-2014, 01:22 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=Der ABT;11573423]E is great....drivers are respectful of one another and while yes the car can make a big difference (as with any class/letter or not) you can do well with a car that isnt a marvel of engineering..
This is the best part of E. Great racing with guys that respect each other. Really well said.
This is the best part of E. Great racing with guys that respect each other. Really well said.
08-13-2014, 05:02 PM
#28
Thats funny ****, Doc.
No wonder our health insurance is so expensive. Gotta pay for you guys to goof off.
How about we trade cars, Doc.......I need to update my avatar soon, anyway.
No wonder our health insurance is so expensive. Gotta pay for you guys to goof off.
How about we trade cars, Doc.......I need to update my avatar soon, anyway.
Last edited by danielyonker; 08-13-2014 at 05:24 PM.
08-13-2014, 10:37 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
I have a competitive 944 Turbo E stock for sale. 3rd in National points 2011 and 12.
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...-race-car.html
I don't have the time to compete it effectively anymore, otherwise I would be staying E Stock.
As others have said, large groups, good racing, respectful drivers, and reasonable operating costs. Although "reasonable" is a highly subjective word!
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...-race-car.html
I don't have the time to compete it effectively anymore, otherwise I would be staying E Stock.
As others have said, large groups, good racing, respectful drivers, and reasonable operating costs. Although "reasonable" is a highly subjective word!
