Drewster67

in my experience - Oil temps on a stock C5 Z06 can reach up to 300 degrees when driven hard on track. Yes - I definitely agree - if the temps are kept in range - the LS1/LS6 are very strong motors.

When my OEM LS6 blew out the 7 piston in 2014 - I wanted to go with a LS2 but decided to stick with the LS6 from Thompson Motorsports

Forged Probe pistons 3.902" Flat top -3cc
TMS performance rings
Blueprinted GM block L33 core
GM connecting rods TMS remanufactured cores
GM Nodular core crankshaft 010/010 high speed balanced
King racing rod bearings
King racing main bearings
Thompson Motorsports single piece racing cam bearings
Rated to 700HP

Carrera51

$20-$25K to spend gives you a lot of possibilities. You could pick up a pretty nice E36 M3, or even an E46 M3 with some DE mods, like shocks, suspension, seats, roll bar etc. I've driven a few of both and they are very good track cars. Both will have enough space to haul your gear. If you want a Porsche, then you could even find a 996 with PSS9s, roll bar etc if you are patient and look around. I think an 06-08 Cayman set up for DE will be closer to $30K or a little more.

DTMiller

gator996 is selling his DE/DD 996 and I think his car would be well under the budget listed. Pretty sure he has rollbar, seats and some other track mods done to it.

cre8fun

Thanks for input. to answer some of the questions:

- do I need the car for anything else? no, I've got a v10 R8 for daily. just don't want to track it.
- Do I care about consumables cost? yes and no. the goal is a car I can use 10-15 times a year to go have fun on the track. I get the miata costs will be lower than E36, whcih are lower than the Z07, which are likely lower than any of the P-cars. in order to go up in cost, the increase in fun factor should be commensurate.
- what kind of driver was I 15 years ago. I would say good or advanced for the HPDE groups. When I got the race car, the track let me run with the competition group before I had an SCCA license because they were familiar with my driving. that said, I think HPDE drivers are a world behind wheel-to-wheel drivers running in a well subscribed class, and I was not a wheel to wheel driver.

I agree, it would be great to get a car with a cage and that is already built. my two concerns there are first, without trailering it, i'd need to get it through Maryland inspection for the street. Second, on a car that has already been built for the track, what's the best way to determine if the car is a worn out mule in need of major overhaul or one that is ready to go?

docwyte

I've got a Thompson Motorsports built 383 in my car. Very happy with their level of service.

My friend C5 Z06 reguarly sees oil temps of 320F. I keep telling him he needs an oil cooler.

Find something that you want to drive that seems like fun to you. As mentioned built cars are cheaper. Get a PPI done just like if it was a street car but add compression/leak down tests...

CosmosMpower

Not a good track car without mods like a baffled oil pan, LSD etc and not cheap either.

I'd say E36 M3

alexaqui

If you look through the E36 M3 thread that I started, about 2 pages back there is a link from noturavgm I believe for a MD based car for 9500 that looks semi-setup. Obviously need to check for rust as that is a HUGE problem and often not disclosed on cars that are advertised as "clean", especially in the mid-Atlantic and North East.

I just ordered my parts; I did go a bit over board as per the recommendations here. Other than the "nice to have" parts I ordered, ALL of the refresh items came in less than what a GT3 control arm upgrade runs installed at a shop in my area for a Cayman. I opted to go with a trick suspension, so that added most of the cost; there are many cheaper/good alternatives out there.

The E36 community is strong and there are tons of vendors selling parts. Even extra body panels are silly cheap if you want to fix them for track purposes!

Miata's are great... except the community has a certain "character" about them that turned me off to them!

DTMiller

Please elaborate. Maybe there's still time for me.

alexaqui

I am not trying to disparage anyone; I just find that the Miata owners that I have met pretty much as a rule have a certain "arrogance" about them. They know they made the absolute best choice about their car and they are more than willing to tell you 1000x times a day how great their Miata is. In every classroom, the Miata owner is always the one talking about how slow they are in the straights and how they blow everyone away. In the paddock, it is "come check out how much better my car is than yours because a xyz only costs $10 at NAPA down the road".

Maybe it's just a few bad apples I've met in my area. Even my wife, who attended her first track day was like, "WTF is up with the Miata driver?" I also agree it is a great plfatform and super cost effective, fun, and results in a super even playing field. Just those few people I met really turned me off to the community. I have heard this echoed from other people in other regions as well.

I do respect that many Miata drivers are super serious and are driving 10/10ths while some of us in our more powerful cars are not.

Gator996

I may have a decent option for ya. I tried to send a pm to you but it's not working. Shoot me an email at av8tred@gmail.com and I can send some stats.

TXE36

I haven't been put off by Miata guys at the track, it's the civilians out there. Back when I started by dual purpose track car search I looked into street Miatas and every one of them was priced into the "You've got to be kidding me territory". 50% over book price was not uncommon and most of them were POS'es of one kind or another. None of the NAs or NBs I looked at could have been called "clean" but the private sellers all wanted above dealer retail.

After the 12th one or so a buddy of mine let me drive his E46 M3 because I'd been kicking the idea around of getting an E36 M3. The rest was history, I bought my first E36 M3 a week later.

I don't think I've ever come across a trash talking Miata driver at a DE. The guys who are fast are just fast. Trash talking and being a slow Miata driver - you'd be a laughing stock.

-Mike

DTMiller

The dirty little secret of the Miata world is that to get it track ready it's not really all that cheap and in pure stock form it isn't all that much fun. Relative to other cars, it's still cheap, but building it can still be kind of pricey, especially relative to the price of the car stock.

Buuuuuut... right now my car is sitting in my mechanic's shop with its transmission on a cart and its front suspension in pieces and my bill will be three figures. So there is that.

audipwr1

Lol man it's just orders of magnitudes - spec Miata is a great track car but you will be rolling bus stop at modern DE days where everyone has 500hp

Drewster67

Yikes 320 - I never let mine breach 300 no matter what -

Yes an oil cooler with a temp bypass switch to open after 240/260 -

Agreed - Thompson MS is a good company with great products.

himself

Truth. Even many P-cars from prior eras are just moving chicanes with these high HP cars and paddle pushers. There was a time when you actually needed to know things to have fast lap times at a DE...

-td