winders

There is really nothing to be gained by trying to prevent a faster car in another class from passing you. Battling the faster car would require you to drive a defensive line. A defensive line is a slower line. All you are doing is slowing both cars down. Does that do you any good? Why would you want to do this? Ego? Selfishness?

Olemiss540

Just a complete novice asking a dumb question trying to learn the mindset of these guys I read about everyday!

winders

When racing in multi-class grids, the first goal (beside not wrecking anyone) is to do as well as you can in your class. Racing a faster car in a different class does not help you reach that goal. All it might do is hurt that goal. Another good goal to have when racing in multi-class grids is to not screw up another class's race(s). You might do that trying to race that faster car in another class.

JayG

While it looks like racing, it could be a Time Trial or HPDE you were looking at. In those types of events, you technically are not racing against other cars and the polite thing to do is let a faster car pass. In those events, you do lift to let the other car pass.

sbelles

Yes but races also sometimes break out between different class cars further back in the pack by mutual consent too and occasionally, two different classes vie for the overall win so as Peter said it's not all black and white.

winders

It all changes when you have near equal speed cars. I was talking about clearly faster out of class cars.....

ProCoach

I think this is a good question, having just watched Van's highly entertaining (and not a little frustrating, if you let it get to you) video of his Sprint Race at The Glen. Let me think about this...

hf1

Car's class is less important than the speed/pace differential and whether you are messing up a competitive battle with your actions. Even in class, it may be prudent to let a faster car pass you with the least loss of time/momentum (both yours and theirs) if they had been delayed for some reason (off, bad qual, penalty) and are fighting their way to P1. What's the point of "fighting" them if you are 3sec/1min of laptime slower than them? Also, it is often fun to dice it out with cars from a different class if the laptimes are similar and if you're not messing up any in-class battles. Common sense resolves 99% of these cases.

Managing slower/faster traffic is a major component of race-craft, yet often underestimated. Like Gary mentioned, after estimating the speed differential, I oftentimes plan for passes 2-3 turns ahead and adjust my pace to minimize my time loss from the pass, whether I'm the slower or the faster car, regardless.

Olemiss540

Thanks in advance! Many times we share our HPDE with racing organizations, so it is interesting to learn more of the background thought. Also it can help to understand some of the thought behind frustration when racers are participating with HPDE run groups to better prepare for what an approaching racer is thinking in the seat behind me.

Gary R.

At an HPDE treat ALL cars that close on you quickly the same way, doesn't matter if the guy is a racer or not.... they are all thinking the same thing, "where is my pass signal".

Olemiss540

I knew this was a quick response away. I will disagree from the standpoint that my "momentum car" has straddled MANY a Porsche bumper for laps, and because of the speed differential in the straights, not gotten a point by. Why is it the momentum car drivers seem more "calm" about this process than the hot shoes driving 500hp that have "earned" advanced grouping due to their 4 HPDE's?

When I am having trouble getting a point, I tend to try and be a bit more understanding while it seems some others cant wait to get back to the pits to go fistacuffs because it was their fastest lap ever that was ruined. Why do they stress fun, learning, and camaraderie at drivers meetings when it is apparent that lap times are the most mission critical piece to success?

As I said in the Doc's thread: If we all treat this as a GENTLEMAN's hobby, and take a dose of patience when reacting to a one off situation (not a repeated offense), maybe everyone would have a bit more fun.

If this problem is seemingly a frequent occurrence for you (sensing frustration looming), is there a possibility the issue is on the other side of the finger?

Re-reading this, let me apologize for the rant. Obviously everyone has their own perspective, mine is from doing this a long time with 240 hp....

Gary R.

My race car has 190 HP... no apologies necessary, but in a standard DE if you are being held up for laps the blame falls on you for not coming in and both separating yourself from the buffoon and giving the organizers a report on him. As a racer at a DE I don't get frustrated, I take appropriate action if held up. As a DE Instructor I take exactly the same action and reinforce it in my student.

Olemiss540

If it bothered me enough (or was a habitual issue with that particular car/driver), that is assuredly what I would do. If i cant get a point by over a couple corners, I tend to just give him/her some room to work on whatever issues have them mentally tied up and take a cool down for a half a lap. With the HP difference, 1 min of gathering my thoughts buys them a half a lap lead before I start going back at it.

My point is frustration has ZERO place at an HPDE (for safety reasons alone). We are all out there for the same purpose, so give your fellow drivers at least ONE benefit of a doubt before assuming they are horse sh$# behind the wheel and putting yourself in danger by getting flustered. If it happens again, have a discussion with the CDI. At PCA and BMCCA events, the reason I enjoy them so much is for their insistence on having the proper mindset and enjoying more than the just the lap times. People at these events tend to be fellow enthusiasts, and life tends to be much better when you approach them with that mindset.

audipwr1

I'll lift or alter my line to let a guy with higher hp but lower skill by

Ultimately I don't want him messing up my race and if I can strategically decide where to let him by so he doesn't slow me up later (i.e. Let him by before main straight) and cost me more lap time

Pay now or pay later

Eifeler

The racer might be thinking something like:
I'm in zone....she's really talking to me today....everything is just flowing...
Then he see's a slower car from several turns back: Hope he's watching his mirrors.....
From the the exit of the prior turn: Where's the point?, Where's the point?, Come on -- Where's the point?
Carrying good momentum and getting close to the slower lead car: Point, Point, Point, Point NOW @#$%^&!'er.....