SToronto

PSA. Seems that Shell stations in Ontario have been switching to ethanol content in all grades of fuel. I just filled up at a couple different stations and don't think I noticed that a new sticker was placed stating as such. But based on forum chatter, appears it's true with numerous people chiming in and photos.

Guess there's no alternative now? Maybe still CT....

@Jamie140 Still ethanol free Premium?

Brian 162

I was at a Shell station earlier tonight filling up my suv. V Power had the ethanol free sticker. I only use it for my snow blower now.

SToronto

I went back to the 2 stations I did a storage fill up at recently. They both had the usual sticker, ethanol free for V-Power but it does say 'where available'. The photos I've seen online show a sticker placed on top of this one that states up to 10% ethanol.

reacp911

Is there no shell person who is a porsche enthusiast? or are they afraid to talk?

500

Apparently as of 2022, the Ontario government requires fuel suppliers to blend at least 10% ethanol in their fuel. What is not clear to me is if the 10% is based on the overall total volume supplied, or is an absolute minimum for every liter of fuel supplied.

928gt

The law states that "Starting in 2020, fuel suppliers must maintain at least an annual average of 10% renewable content (such as ethanol) in the gasoline they sell in Ontario." It is the average Ethanol requirement on overall total volume supplied across all grades. In other words, if a supplier sells a grade of gas that contains E20, for every litre of E20 they sell they can still sell a litre of E0 (Ethanol-free) gas and meet the regulation - and it is not anything that kicked in in 2022 as it has been in place since 2020. The regulation requires a 10% average Ethanol content, with Ethanol percentage increases as per the paragraph below (see https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/5...ner-gasoline):

To help ensure that industry has a chance to adjust to the new requirements, the province is gradually phasing in the renewable content from the existing 10 per cent requirement to 11 per cent in 2025, 13 per cent in 2028 and 15 per cent in 2030.

As for the definition of a supplier, the following paragraph applies (see https://www.ontario.ca/page/greener-gasoline), with an example which explains why the pump at Mosport for instance can still continue to sell Ethanol-free gas):

Who must comply

You must comply with the law, if you supply gasoline to the Ontario market.

You are considered a supplier, if you:

• import gas into the province — and use or sell it in Ontario (wholesale or retail)
• manufacture or blend gas — and use or sell it in Ontario (wholesale or retail)
• acquire gasoline through an inter-refiner agreement — and use or sell it in Ontario (wholesale or retail)

Suppliers are only required to meet the balancing requirements for the volumes of gasoline or blended gasoline they have imported, manufactured or acquired through an inter-refiner agreement and sold in Ontario. For example, an independently-owned retail station in Kingston:

• imports 100,000 litres of gasoline from the U.S.
• then sells 1 million litres of gasoline at its outlet.

The retail station must only meet the balancing requirements for the 100,000 litres imported.
-

Shell is a supplier and must comply, but they are leaving the door wide open for a few independent stations - like the one at Mosport or in their example above - to continue to cater to the enthusiast market and sell Ethanol-free gas (which will undoubtedly come at a hefty premium).

500

Thank you 928gt, that is some really good info that has answered a lot of my questions.

I just hope some relatively close stations get interested in this niche market...

928gt

The abhorrent thing in Ontario's (and for that matter, USA's) Ethanol push is that they conveniently relate Ethanol with clean burning fuel for the purpose of fighting climate change and driving down emissions - when nothing could be further from the truth. While burning Ethanol does produce lower GHG emissions than burning gasoline, a recent US study found that once you take into account the greenhouse gasses released during the production of Ethanol, Ethanol is 25% or more worse for the environment than the extraction, distillation and combustion of petroleum-based fuels. "The research, which was funded in part by the National Wildlife Federation and U.S. Department of Energy, found that ethanol is likely at least 24% more carbon-intensive than gasoline due to emissions resulting from land use changes to grow corn, along with processing and combustion." (U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds). In other words, we have accelerated global warming since we started blending Ethanol with gasoline some ~18 years ago instead of reducing it.

If the goal is to decrease dependence on imported oil like it is in the US (but not in Canada), I'd unreservedly accept it. If they only said "we need to subsidize the farmers", I'd also accept it. What I won't accept is the bull$hit about it being a cleaner fuel. From one of the two articles about the Ontario regulation I linked earlier:

"We know about one third of all greenhouse gas emissions in the province comes from transportation which is why increasing the amount of renewable content in gasoline is such an important step towards fighting climate change and driving down emissions," said Jeff Yurek, Minister of the Environment, Conservation and Parks. "This change will also help attract investment in ethanol production, create jobs in rural communities and assist the biofuel and agriculture sectors in their long-term economic recovery from COVID-19."

Most of the ethanol produced in Ontario is made from locally-grown corn. By increasing demand for biofuels like ethanol, this regulation will benefit local farmers, attract further investment in the industry and support Ontario's competitive advantage as a clean fuel province.

It is 100% about the farmers, but they are selling it to the public as "an important step towards fighting climate change and driving down emissions" when nothing could be further form the truth. Ethanol production does not result in fighting climate change (burning Ethanol vs. burning gas does, but you can't burn Ethanol unless you first produce it). Unless someone comes up with a really cool magic trick, Ethanol production results in accelerating climate change, not fighting it.

</rant>

reacp911

Europe is going this way too. One of the few holdouts is greece

RDMcG

Still...the requirement states they have to have an average of 10%. I have written to Shell asking if they can clarify the ethanol content in each grade of fuel. Maybe the good stuff is lower,

theiceman

pssst budy !! .. want to buy some gas ?? .. its the good stuff !!!

Jamie140

sorry, I don’t own the gas bar.

reacp911

Ok, so I obtained some graduated cylinders and did some testing.

One was at a V1 pump that said "may contain up to 10% (bayview and eg). It showed approx 5% but I was a bit sloppy, so the exact num may not be right, but there was alcohol.

Other was at pump labelled "10%/5%/no ethanol ( yonge and york mills). The pump did not lie.

One interesting result is that with no ethanol, the line between water and gas is very sharp. With ethanol, fuzzy.

YMMV

teal986

Thanks for testing that! So at least at the stations you visited, if they don't have the new sticker, they are in fact still ethanol free.

Hard to believe that they would allocate pure gas vs ethanol blends on a station by station basis, especially ones so close to one another. But hey, the stations in my area still say ethanol free so I will choose to believe it!

RDMcG

That is really helpful!! Many thanks.