fbgh2o

I have perused the threads here and looked at the Highway Traffic Act.

I do not see why it would not be possible to convert the front plate to a smaller (not as tall) european type plate or to go to a vinyl sticker as long as all the numbers remain visbile to a traffic light camera.

The Act does not say anything about the size of the plate (see the very liberal definition below) or its construction. The Act does prohibit defacing or altering the plate and gives the police a broad ability to interpret the rules, however this approach could be potentially be defensible in court and compliant with the spirit of the law.

I am thinking of writing to the Lieutenant Governor and MTO to ask if it would be permissible to have a front plate made (they are available on the Internet). Has anyone been down this path before?


Here is the exact wording of the Act which address what constitutes a number plate.

Violations as to number plates

12. (1) Every person who,

(a) defaces or alters any number plate, evidence of validation or permit;
(b) uses or permits the use of a defaced or altered number plate, evidence of validation or permit;
(c) without the authority of the permit holder, removes a number plate from a motor vehicle or trailer;
(d) uses or permits the use of a number plate upon a vehicle other than a number plate authorized for use on that vehicle;
(e) uses or permits the use of evidence of validation upon a number plate displayed on a motor vehicle other than evidence of validation furnished by the Ministry in respect of that motor vehicle; or
(f) uses or permits the use of a number plate or evidence of validation other than in accordance with this Act and the regulations,

is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000 or to imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or to both, and in addition the person’s licence or permit may be suspended for not more than six months. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 12 (1).

Property of the Crown
(2) Every number plate is the property of the Crown and shall be returned to the Ministry when required by the Ministry. 1999, c. 12, Sched. R, s. 5 (1).

Same

(3) For the purpose of subsection (2), “number plate” includes,

(a) a number plate bearing a requested number,
(b) evidence of validation,
(c) a permit,
(d) a CAVR cab card, and
(e) an IRP cab card issued by the Ministry. 1999, c. 12, Sched. R, s. 5 (1).

Note: On a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor, subsection (3) is repealed by the Statutes of Ontario, 1999, chapter 12, Schedule R, subsection 5 (2) and the following substituted:
Same

(3) For the purpose of subsection (2),“number plate” includes,

(a) a number plate bearing a requested number,
(b) evidence of validation,
(c) a permit, and
(d) an IRP cab card issued by the Ministry. 1999, c. 12, Sched. R, s. 5 (2).

See: 1999, c. 12, Sched. R, ss. 5 (2), 21.

peritus

I photo copied my front license plate, shrunk it down to about 2/3 the original size, and scotch taped it above the rear view on the windscreen.

No one seems to mind so far, and it's been like that for quite some time.

James

MY86Carrera

I think if you read a little further into the HTA Sec 14 Improper number plate... would cover this issue.

James, don't worry your secret is safe :-)

Brad

Christien

Actually, it's in section 13:

13. (1) No number other than that upon the number plate furnished by the Ministry shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 13 (1).

Clear as day, the plate must be issued by the MTO. I've heard many people say they've never been stopped for not having a front plate, but I've also heard of 1 or 2 that have been ticketed.

Brad, many of us carry the plate in the back seat with the excuse that "oh, it just fell off earlier today and I'm on my way home/garage/etc to fix it". Would that excuse be likely to fly at the side of the road? (assuming of course the plate and hardware were indeed in the back or trunk). This actually did happen to me once a couple years ago with my rear plate. I did indeed head straight home (was going there anyway) and fixed it right away.

fwiw, with the S spoiler on the front of my car, the front plate is tilted in a bit and looks fine, so I always have it attached. Doesn't bother me. Now a boxster/996/997 front end, well, a plate really does mess up the nice lines.

pongobaz

I've seen a number of cars with a vinyl replica of the front plate stuck on the front bumper. They looked like a real plate from a distance, as they were the exact size and colour as the metal unit but contoured onto the bumper of the car (cleaner and better aero). I wonder if they ever get hassled by the police for having those.

Crazy Canuck

Only if they have donuts.

MY86Carrera

"It just fell off", With me............most likely. Can't speak for others though.

Brad

MY86Carrera

Chris, Sec 13 deals with adding anything to the number plate to confuse the identity (which includes dirt), or like someone using blue tape to make an 'F' into an 'E' etc. Although it seems to be the only section which says "furnished by the Ministry", the charge would come from Sec 14

Brad

Christien

Yep. 13 defines it, 14 makes it clearly illegal:

14. (1) Where a police officer or an officer appointed under this Act has reason to believe that,

(a) a number plate attached to a motor vehicle or trailer,

(i) has not been authorized under this Act for use on that vehicle,

(ii) was obtained by false pretences, or

(iii) has been defaced or altered;

fc-racer

I prefer to not give the police any reason to pull me over. The only people seeing the nasty front plate are folks outside the car, so why take the risk of being pulled over to give passer-by's a prettier view of my car.

amaist

Register the car in QC


Although, personally I didn't care one way or the other and was a bit puzzled about Quebec having only the rear plate. Most of the world functions fine with 2 plates. I'd like to see the rationale behind that move.

I do wish that Euro-style plates would be used instead but that is something I only worry about for 20 seconds per year.

peritus

Cus I don't want to drill into my glass bumper...

fbgh2o

Thanks, I had missed that in my review. So clearly the approach is to get the MTO to authorize the use of a smaller or vinyl plate. That's going to be my approach... Let's see what happens.

Torontoworker

They won't allow vinyl plates because it will be open to abuse outside of their control. You know and I know it will just take one person to make the font size point 2 or the size of the plate half size and they would end any experiment with vinyl front plates. Never going to fly.

What we should ALL be fighting against is the part of the HTA allowing roadside seizures for offences NOT in the criminal code of Canada and which appears to be contrary to the Charter of Rights. The crown and the cabinet KNEW at the time of implementation that it wouldn’t hold up in court, yet they went ahead with this stupid, wrong headed application of this part of the HTA for political reasons. The fact that it violates federal law is not a problem for them, as they know the potential costs in Federal court for a Charter challenge could potentially cost at minimum, hundreds of thousands.

There was supposed to be a lawyer in Toronto that was going to use a driver who had been stopped going 50km over the speed limit all on his own and was towed, impounded and then found innocent at trial and then refused a refund of costs as a test case - but so far I have not heard where this has gone.

I don’t think anyone has an issue of being stopped and then getting a summons and your day in court. If they want to give the power for seizure and impound to the judge upon conviction – so be it - that is ALREADY on the books as part of the judges power. They could even order the car to be in the courthouse parking lot on the day of your trial for towing in case your convicted – but at least we would have an unbiased, untainted individual making an honest ruling on the facts.

But to allow a Police officer to be judge jury and executioner at the roadside and there not being any allowance that he or she could be in error – an error that has no appeal, no refund and could cost you thousands of dollars to fight and then having won your case – not be refunded ANY of the costs is simply wrong.

Where were our representatives in the legislature when they allowed this? Was it all about the five minute video clip of the worst OPP commissioner in the Provinces history telling the public how safe the streets are as a result of his ‘war on racing’? The MPP’s of all parties bought into it because of his bullyboy tactics that if you speak out against him – you support lawlessness and must be a bad team player.

The Premier just wants to be done with this A Hole and didn’t want him ending up as the Tory representative for Woodbridge, so he is keeping an enemy closer to his vest for now... It may make good politics’ as the Liberal candidate is weak in this area, but it makes for a little Caesar running amok with people’s rights. (Now he wants to be Mayor of York Region I hear.) You know his type – *I’m a Police officer so I KNOW the law and YOUR wrong*.

This is the battle that should be fought, not if I can or cannot have a front plate on my car. (Soapbox mode to off now. )

Christien

As I understand it, there are several charter challenges to the "stunt driving" law currently in progress. It does take a fairly long time for these to go through the court system (years, not months).