Bob Rouleau

Well folks, after about 9000 track miles my 2002 GT2 ceramic rotors have been judged "kaput". That's German for no longer useable. MY car has about 12,000 total miles now (20,000 KM). I think this makes me the longevity winner on this forum as we've read about premature failures at 3,000 to 5,000 total miles.

Those who participate in track events know that rotors are a replacement item. I usually get two seasons out of mine (60 track days); It turns out that the ceramics have a similar life span when used ion track. This puts us and Porsche between a rock and a hard place. I doubt than any many have claimed steel rotors on warranty in the past when used on track. We simply bought new ones and moved on. When four rotors cost as much as a new car, things get messy for both sides.

Porsche Cars is standing on the warranty which says that track use voids the 185,000 mile or 300,000 KM warranty on PCCB. They do review these claims on a case by case basis and there is a chance that you might get a replacement set based on extenuating circumstances but, don't count on it.

If you have PCCB and you do track the car, I strongly suggest that you remove the ceramic rotors - put them in a safe place for re-sale time and install steel rotors.

If you prefer to remain all Porsche, you can convert to GT3 rotors. You will need 4 rotors, new rear calipers and a complete set of pads. Note that the front calipers for the GT3 (steel) have a different part number but that's because they are red instead of yellow. They are otherwise identical. The rear calipers need to be changed because the rear rotor for the GT3 is slightly smaller. There are other alternatives as well - Brembo for example.

My GT3 with steel rotors brakes as well as the GT2 with PCCB and I doubt that the extra 120 lbs of the GT2 will make a difference.

The important thing is that rotors on a track car wear out - PCCB or not. The ceramic system probably lasts "forever" on a street driven car and is guaranteed by Porsche to do exactly that, but not on a track car. The conversion to steel costs less than the price of a single ceramic rotor. Replacement steel rotors cost anywhere from $280 (US) to $400 depending on where you buy them. A new ceramic rotors costs about $8,500 US or $10,700 Canadian.

The conversion kit is available from Gert Carnewal (Rennlist sponsor) or your dealer. Given the investment we have in any PCCB equipped Porsche, the cost to change is no big deal. I spend more than that on tires in a season.

To avoid a potentially unpleasant experience change to steel (cast iron really) rotors now.

Best,

wch

"A new ceramic rotors costs about $8,500 US or $10,700 Canadian."

For the set, or apiece?

FixedWing

Any photos Bob? Exactly how did they fail? Also, what was your experience with pads?

Stephen

Bob Rouleau

WCH - the rotors are $8,700 US Each. No photos handy. The rears had ugly coloration and patches on the surface flaking off. The fronts had a weird sort of chunking (if it was a tire) at the very outside edge of the rotor on the inside (where it is less obvious) as well as cracks hole to hole. They showed me the factory spec book which has diagrams showing what is and is not acceptable. Mine were not. The only obvious evidence was a vibration from the rear under strong braking. The discoloration on the rear rotors (thnk blotchy patches) was obvious. The cracks on the front likewise but the odd chunking at the rim of the rotor on the fronts was not visible unless you jacked up the car.

Pads were Porsche Yellow (Sport) always. They wear out fast. I got about 7 track days per set of fronts and double that on the rear. I think the steel rotors may permit a bigger variety of pads since the PCCB pads come in three flavors as far as I know, Black (never for track), Yellow (Sport) and Green (Race).

Regards,

wch

"WCH - the rotors are $8,700 US Each."

As I suspected, and in line with the replacement cost quoted to me for my '04 Stradale. Quite an obstacle to tracking the cars - I assume Stradale brake conversions are not far off.

Will

Sloth

If you have PCCB and you do track the car, I strongly suggest that you remove the ceramic rotors - put them in a safe place for re-sale time and install steel rotors.


hey Bob, Not the news I was wanting to hear but thanks for sharing. I want to go to the track, but this PCCB issue makes me nervous. I am looking into shelving the PCCB and doing the swap to cast iron rotors.

AdamGT3

The most recent track GT3 I have been in has done 4000miles and is now at the point where its second set of iron rotors need changing. They all go as suggested but it depends whether you want the better braking performance (although marginal) that the ceramics offer.

The higher performance pad you go to the more abrasive it gets so wear will increase and shorten the life of the disc. If you use some metallic pads you can wear a set of iron rotors in a few hundred miles.

Just depends what you want to achieve and how much you want to spend. I understand from a few sources that the rotors in the UK have now been reduced from £5k per corner to £1k, making ceramics a more viable proposition.

If you drive hard you are going to wear the rotors/bushings/in fact everything!! Nothing will last forever!

Sun Ra

i have found full PCCB sets for $4k.

Uncle Bob,

how many sets of steel would you use in 9000 track miles?

Steve in FL

watt: You sure the $4K sets are for a GT2/GT3? I think they're the retrofit kit for the 996 Turbo and are smaller diameter rotors (at least on the front).

Sun Ra

for GT2

PogueMoHone

So 9000 track miles, does that mean there's 20 times the "wear and tear" on the car using it on the track. Not bad really, but expensive.

The individual price for the rotors is as Bob says, but you can buy the whole kit from a dealer for about $12000. I'm not sure but I don't think there is any difference in the size of the rotors on the TT and the GT2.

There are some sets around for sale privately for much less, $10000 is the lowest I've heard about.

mds

I think 20 times is not unreasonable, actually the factory says it is even more I believe. This ratio is likely valid for engine life also, at least for race level performance.

For those switching to iron and looking for a track pad, try Pagid RS19. It is very nice, good wear and good feel.

FixedWing

Who cares? cast iron rotors are cheap disposables. Toss them in the bin and don't think twice about it. Not so ceramics.

Stephen

Bob Rouleau

Watt - Tell me more about 4000 dollar ceramics. At that price the ceramics are reasonable. The price of 1K pounds in the UK is also a major improvement. The prices I quoted are what I got from the dealer last week. Based on previous cars on track, I typically replace rotors every two years. My ceramics lasted no longer than the iron ones on my C4S although I admit that the GT2 works brakes harder. We'll see about the GT3 kit this season, I'll report on longevity. To sum it up, with steel rotors costing 400 bucks, I can replace them 20 times for the (current) price of a PCCB rotor. Based on 9000 track miles, that suggests having to replace the steel rotors every 450 miles. Since my GT3 already has 2,000 track miles on it with the rotors being just fine thank you, the math does not work - unless the PCCB rotors get cheap.

WCH - I passed on a Stradale because it has ceramic brakes and the freaking pads are a stupid price, $6,200 US for a full set at the local dealer. Since I actually DRIVE my cars paying those prices for consumable items is a real disincentive.

Best,

Sun Ra

Bob,

i was quoted an inside price by my mechanic and am asking him how many sets he can get