Premier

We would like to make available some information about paint protection film, some tips on maintenance and how to search out professional dealers for the Rennlist community. As quality of film makes a tremendous difference in the way it looks after an installation, it is only one of three ingredients for a "clear" install. The 2nd would be the installation quality and third is the design of the clear bra kits.

For the 6 years we have been in the paint protection film industry, we have used and tested every single film manufacturer on the market. Below are our opinions of each:

Films on the Market:

3M - 1st generation film had many fading issues, which prompted an upgrade in early 2004. The film still uses the same urethane, but a clearer adhesive. The old film also received many complaints about "orange peel" texture that made the film very visible on darker colored vehicles. 3M's new film is clearer, but is still behind in strength and clarity. 5 Yr Warranty

Avery - Film generally fades w/in 1yr and customer service is poor. The company has all, but fall off the face of the paint protection industry.

Clearshield - Film's quality is very similar to 3M's 1st generation film, if not the same. Tends to yellow and crack in 2-3 yrs. Similar to 3M's 1st gen film, 90% of the adhesives will remain on paint when film is removed. 5 Year Warranty.

Llumar (CP Films) is one of the clearer films on the market. Customer service is lacking and company tends to work warranty claims based on the small prints. Film's quality does not reject environmental oxidation, bird droppings, and other chemicals as well as 3M and Venture. Lifetime Warranty

Venture - film's clarity along w/ its patented acrylic adhesives make it the clearer film. Excellent customer service and film looks great on all colors - even black. Lifetime Warranty

INSTALLATION & SOFTWARE DESIGN
Film's quality is only as good as the installation. Searching out a good installer is not an easy task as many companies make outrageous claims of experience and expertise. The most important thing is to see what type of coverage you will get and whether or not it will be in one piece especially for the front bumper. Companies that use 1 piece for bumpers are generally more skilled at paint protection film installations, while software designers such as Clearshield, Invicashield, and Stongard created these kits for those DIYers in mind.

Below are some tips to searching out good installers:
-what type of software do they use. This will dictate their skill level as companies utilizing the 3 softwares above are used to having these kits come in multiple pieces for ease of installation.
-how detailed oriented are they........you will have to pick up these little signs while talking with the company or installer
-how long have they been installing paint protection
-are they certified? although certification is not a pre-req for being a professional installer, it does show that they received some type of training.
-can they do custom work with one piece of film. This is generally meant for those with aftermarket bumpers or would like to have certain areas wrapped that is not computer generated designs.
-if they do custom work, do they cut on the vehicle? When we do any type of custom work, a template is designed for the vehicle and then cut out on a drawing board. This will reduce the chance of cutting on the paint to 0.
-Ask to see if they use a heat gun to "soften" the material during installation. This is often a technique used by those not familiar w/ proper stretching of material..........this goes back to experience
-Take a look at their work or better yet, ask the locals about their reputation.

FAQ
1. Will it yellow, bubble or crack over time? Depends on the film (Venture comes with a Lifetime Warranty from yellowing, bubbling, and cracking)
2. Can it be washed and waxed? Yes, to maintain the film, it is meant to be waxed and washed 2 wks after installation.
3. When my car gets dirty, the line on the hood is more visible. What can I do about it? Wash the vehicle and use a wet q-tip and run it along the edge and this will clean up the dirt or wax build-up
4. If I ever remove the film, will there be a two-tone effect? No, 3m & Venture are UV stable and allow the rays to penetrate; therefore, there will not be any 2-toning if film is ever removed.
5. Would the paint get stripped if I remove the film after a few yrs? The film is paint-safe on OEM paint.
6. Can I repaint my bumper and put a film on right away? Yes, you can, but you risk having the paint get pulled off if it is removed later. The recommended new paint curing time is 30-60 days before clear bra application
7. From my local clear bra installer, Venture is easy to install. Well yes and no. Yes, it is easier to install due to its elasticity, but that doesn't mean the quality of install will be ideal. In actuality, the film is more difficult to work with to bring out a truly invisible installation because the film is so clear.........it does not hide any type of installation flaw. While companies like 3m, Clearshield and Avery has some orange peel texture, it helps hide some of the installation imperfections.
8. Why do you charge more than these other guys? Our company was founded with one idea in mind - "Perfection is Our Standard". We truly believe that you get what you pay for and we provide our clientele with excellence in installation, warranty, and service.
9. How long does it take to install a full kit? We are typically done with the actual installation between 1.5-2.5 hrs for a full kit. The standard in this industry goes anywhere from 4 hrs to 6hrs.
10. I don't like to see the line on the hood, can you cover the entire hood? Yes, we can. We are one of several companies in the U.S. that has film large enough to wrap entire hoods as well as entire panels.

Hopefully, this thread will be helpful for those wondering about getting a clear bra for your vehicles. Our company is exclusively mobile and can travel to anywhere in the world (except for the Middle East ) for group buys. If anyone is interested in setting up a group buy for your area or would like a quote, please feel free to email us at: sales@premiermobilegroup.com or call us directly at 510-390-6920.
-we reply to all of our email inquiries within 24hrs.

rnlarctic997

Man, I wish I could figure out a way to get my 997 to you from central Kentucky ( Louisville). Thanks for the informative article--the work looks fantastic! Could you give us an idea on the cost? Let's say full front bumper/ hood/ side mirror coverage...TIA.

RootN4U

Anyone know who is the best dealer that does this in SE Florida??

ELUSIVE

How about Colorado?

alin2

yeah Chicago would be nice too! Anyone in Chicagoland interested in a group buy?

Premier

We actually have a group buy going on in Cinci, OH in early Feb........our pricing for the standard kit, which cuts off right around the bend on the bumper is $650 and $800 for the Premier kit, it wraps all the way around.

If you guys would like to set up a group buy for your local area, feel free to do so as we are open to travel almost anywhere as long as the demand is there.

baboou

I'm not sure how far south you are but try Alan Seligman 407-833-0505 or invincaman@cfl.rr.com. He did my install and it is absolutely perfect. He's located in the Orlando area but does travel to your location.

RootN4U

baboou...
Thank you...

Gary R.

Beautiful car, but that (to me) very visible line wouldn't work fo me...

silverrules

They should have covered he entire hood ! I agree the line wouldnt work for me either, not on a $100K car.

Premier

Agreed.......which is why we carry some of the largest and rarest hood sized rolls because wrapping entire hoods are something that we are able and experienced enough to do. Most of our exotic car owners are very particular about their $100k-$500k cars.....many are pushed away from clearbras because of these lines. When it comes to exotics, wrapping entire panels is becoming a trend as many of these owners love to DRIVE their vehicles and would hate to get chips in open areas.

Also, it's becoming more common for us to wrap doors as well because of door dents and scratches. The film does take some of the impact from door dents and will keep the paint from getting scratched up.........especially from jacka**es who loves to key other people's cars.

Premier

We have a trip scheduled for NYC / NJ in mid-March for the Lexus, Infiniti, Nissan and Ferrari crowds. We do not have any dates set yet as we are still coordinating dates with these car groups. We do have the following dates pending:

March 11-13
March 18-20
March 25-27

We are also working on a group buy set for either Cinci, OH or Louisville, KY in February.

Ghost Rider

I guess paying to get yourself a Rennlist sponsor allows one to spread a certain amount of FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) about paint protection films. Although there are some good tips in the original message in this thread, there are also some glaring inaccuracies.

For example, I'm worked with 3M film since the mid 90's and have seen installations on black cars that are 7+ years old that are still doing fine despite being exposed to the elements for that period of time and many many miles. Same holds true for 5+ years on cars of other colors (yellow, silver, blue).

Cutting on the car? As someone suggested above, get Alan Seligman to do the install. He is a master installer and he has never cut the paint while trimming on a car. If you are butting up 2 large pieces you can't do that off the car you have to do it on the car at which point you need someone like Alan. Don't believe me? challenge Alan, put a $100 bill down on the paint and he'll trim over the top of it, if he cuts the bill he pays you $100, if not, he keeps the bill. Actually, I've seen him give it back, but do it just to prove a point.

Kits that are in single pieces NEVER come out as well as kits with multiple pieces if they are across large compound curve surfaces. To get the film to lay down in a single piece installers (stongard in particular) have to heat and stretch the material to get it to lay down and in doing so introduce stretch marks and disfigurement to the material.

Cover the whole hood? yeah I guess you can do so, but geeze at that point you might as well dip the whole car in plastic and lock it away in one of those inflatable bubbles. Properly designed kits provide enough coverage for the hood to cover 95+% of the area where impacts are likely to occur. In owning Boxsters and 911s I have ever only 1 time received a rock hit above an area on the hood where the kit covered and the hit was so minor that it didn't take a chunk of paint out, just made a light scratch that could be rubbed out.

I don't mean to put down your attempts to make $$$, hey that's the american way, but I always find "information" provided by someone trying to sell me something as usually having shall we say a certain bias? I'm also very positive on clear bras and have had them on nearly a dozen cars in the last decade and even done some installs myself, and I agree that the kit, the material and the installer are the 3 most important items, although I would rate it in terms of importance as:

1) Installer
2) Kit design
3) Warranty/Support
4) Material

OK I lied, there are 4.

So as someone above pointed out, I advocate ALAN SELIGMAN (407-927-1900) as the installer of choice. I've seen several installer's work and I've never seen better than Alan's. Your work may be fine, but I'd have to see you do better than Alan for me to contemplate using you instead of him, in other words, show me, don't tell me.

Kit? - Shop around and find the right one for your car, determine how much coverage you want, how much stretching you are willing to take, and what your installer prefers or has experience with on your particular vehicle. Alan does custom work and has been doing custom work on Carrera GT's at the request of PCNA for some customers in the southeast because of the quality and craftmanship of what he does.

Warranty? - Hmmm I've had Alan jump on a plane and bring extra material to get a job done right to my satisfaction after a pattern supplier let us both down. His customer service is top notch.

Material? - I've never had a material failure on any car I've owned during the time I've owned it or for a subsequent owner when I've continued to have contact with the subsequent owner. I've used 3M almost exclusively and when I've ventured away to try one film or another the results have not been up to par with 3M.

Ok enough soapbox...

Premier

For example, I'm worked with 3M film since the mid 90's and have seen installations on black cars that are 7+ years old that are still doing fine despite being exposed to the elements for that period of time and many many miles. Same holds true for 5+ years on cars of other colors (yellow, silver, blue).

-We also carry 3M and prefer Venture because of the product's strength, clarity, and warranty. We're not saying that all 3M film will fade and have warranty issues, just that from experience and from colleagues' experiences, it is more likely to do so........especially with their old film. This is why they had to upgrade their film one yr ago. The film is still new so time will tell how well it will hold up, but we remain cautiously optimistic while they have yet to move their warranty further than 5 years.

Cutting on the car? As someone suggested above, get Alan Seligman to do the install. He is a master installer and he has never cut the paint while trimming on a car. If you are butting up 2 large pieces you can't do that off the car you have to do it on the car at which point you need someone like Alan. Don't believe me? challenge Alan, put a $100 bill down on the paint and he'll trim over the top of it, if he cuts the bill he pays you $100, if not, he keeps the bill. Actually, I've seen him give it back, but do it just to prove a point.

-We are professionals and need not bet with anyone for something as petty as this.....it's a bit childish. We are able to perform several types of custom applications:
1. Draw template preparation and design
2. Custom application and trim excess material on the car
-We never said that "Alan" cannot do it. It seems you are somewhat offended when we speak of cutting / trimming on a car........as if you are affiliated with Alan or perhaps, Alan himself. We were never referring to him.......there are plenty of installers on the market who could trim on the car w/o damaging the paint underneath........it really comes down to experience....and good for this Alan guy who could do it......we were referring to the average installer.

'Kits that are in single pieces NEVER come out as well as kits with multiple pieces if they are across large compound curve surfaces. To get the film to lay down in a single piece installers (stongard in particular) have to heat and stretch the material to get it to lay down and in doing so introduce stretch marks and disfigurement to the material."

-We would have to disagree with you on this. Just by using words such as "Never", Always, Best, etc. shows that you are leaning to very extremes. One piece applications are tough, we do no deny that, but it can be applied despite compound curves and comes out cleaner than multi-pc designs. If the one piece could be installed properly, then it will fit properly, given the software designer and installation technicians are top notch.......as ours are.
-As we mentioned in our first post, watch out for companies that need to use heat guns to soften the material.......it's a sign of incorrect installation technique.
-As for multiple-pc vs. one pc, it's somewhat similar to window tint.........some companies do multiple pieces for the rear glass while the more experienced companies install w/ one piece due to the curvature of the rear glass. Like window tint, it can be done in one piece and look good at the same time.

"Cover the whole hood? yeah I guess you can do so, but geeze at that point you might as well dip the whole car in plastic and lock it away in one of those inflatable bubbles. Properly designed kits provide enough coverage for the hood to cover 95+% of the area where impacts are likely to occur. In owning Boxsters and 911s I have ever only 1 time received a rock hit above an area on the hood where the kit covered and the hit was so minor that it didn't take a chunk of paint out, just made a light scratch that could be rubbed out."

-This 95% you mentioned is not backed by any studies or statistics. It's merely your experience with your vehicles. Some people rarely have rock chips and other vehicles look like it's been sand-blasted. Everyone's experience is different and should not be generalized as being so.
-Although having the entire hood covered is not accepted by the mass market, it is preferred by some of the owners of high-end vehicles due to the line that will show on the hood.

"I don't mean to put down your attempts to make $$$, hey that's the american way, but I always find "information" provided by someone trying to sell me something as usually having shall we say a certain bias? I'm also very positive on clear bras and have had them on nearly a dozen cars in the last decade and even done some installs myself, and I agree that the kit, the material and the installer are the 3 most important items, although I would rate it in terms of importance as:
1) Installer
2) Kit design
3) Warranty/Support
4) Material"

-Certainly, we are in business to make a profit, but we also realized many years ago that to make a quick buck is not tough, but to keep the customers is where the challenge is. Our company focuses on quality of installation as the pictures of our work posted on this forum shows. We are here for the long-run and understand that manipulattion is the worst way to maintain a company that focuses on long-term.
-It's funny how some companies / installers claim they are the "best" while not having any type of proof. In the paint protection film industry, there are no rating systems or professional critics who decide which company installer(s) is / are the best. Basically, there aren't any Olympics for "best" installer.

"So as someone above pointed out, I advocate ALAN SELIGMAN (407-927-1900) as the installer of choice. I've seen several installer's work and I've never seen better than Alan's. Your work may be fine, but I'd have to see you do better than Alan for me to contemplate using you instead of him, in other words, show me, don't tell me."
-We are not here to compete w/ this "Alan" guy as it seems you are inferring........we are too busy to play this game of my installer is better than yours.....again, it's a bit immature. We are here to provide our professional services and what others do is not important to us. We focus on our quality of work and that is really what matters for our clients. If we continuously look at what others are doing, we will lose focus of what we do and in the end, our customers will lose out.

-As for product quality, we still use 3m, but Venture is our preferred choice. 3m is used w/ some of our dealership accounts that prefer the use of the "old name". We've attached here some pics of actual 3M material fading...........we're not saying that all 3M film will do this, but from experience 3M, Clearshield, and Avery tends to do this.........the pics below show what poor installation is and how 3m looks when it is fading and cracking:

From other forums, that we've been sponsoring, it seems there is always someone being a complete advocate of this Alan guy as being the "best"..........the way these guys talk are pretty similar and very exaggerated.......seems to be a bit on sneaky side whether it's actually him or others affilliated with him. Here's a link to a recent discussion between some members on an Infiniti forum..........de ja vu?

http://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40008

PogueMoHone

In the SF Bay Area also check out CS Specialties. They have done a great job on all my cars at extremely competitive prices.

Talk to Mariano at 408 476 3332