DDP

I think I have brought this up before but I don't remember. This winter I had a HUGE list. One of which was to baffle my oil pan for my dear #2 rod bearing so that I could DE and autoX my car this summer without worry. Now is it THAT needed? Would it be alright if I beat on it this summer, kept my oil level high, changed regularly and did the bottom end and baffle next winter? My bearings have 110k original miles on them....so...The PO was very good with oil changes so they should be good. I could also monitor my bearings through the summer and listen for rod knock I guess but I don't want to spin a bearing, ugh! So, what should I do, I don't want to do it cus I am running out of winter time and money, lol. Thanks

RedlineMan

Hey;

I wouldn't give it a second thought. #2s do blow, quite obviously. And yet, my 150k+??? mile 84 which has somewhere between 10-20k hard track miles has never been touched, and I DON'T drive slowly. It still holds 55-60psi at full song and 20 blazing hot at idle.

Keep the oil level at +1 pint and have a ball! If I ever have to drop the pan (???) I'll probably baffle mine too.

M758

It is stories like John's that make #2 rod bearing issues such a pain to solve. There have been many folks like him with plenty of track miles and no bearing issues. Then others even with fresh bearings, and baffled pans destroy them in a couple weekends.

I personally don't like to keep the oil too high since it can be whipped around by the crank cause air bubbles, but don't dare let it get low. Low oil level is very bad.

RMills944

I don't know that I'd go a quart high, but then again, my uncle did that with his for every track event for about 2 years before he built the engine up and it survived great.

joseph mitro

correct me if i'm wrong but i've heard people say that racing is much harder on the car than DE. with that in mind, i wouldn't go the extra effort and cost just to baffle unless the oilpan is already off and completely clean.

when my #2 spun, i had rod knock. the crank had to be reground, so i don't think (IMHO) that simply listening for rod knock is going to keep you from spinning a bearing. i guarantee you won't hear it at 6000 rpm going 100mph down the straightaway, and by then it will be too late.

unless your car is a full race car, then IMHO you should be ok without a baffle

AznDrgn

my 2 cents. Change your rod bearings and drive it like you stole it.

Blue S2

Is this only cause under hard cornering and oil starvation? How worried should i be in autocross situations about that #2 ? Assuming oil is changed regularly and always kept at proper level?

AznDrgn

Well there are many theories on why the #2 always fails but regardless of which one you want to believe the bottom line is that it fails. High revs and really ******* a car don't help the situation any and you probably won't hear it knocking until it spins which is already too late. $100 in parts and a day on a lift is a lot of insurance against permanent expensive damage. I think there was a side by side comparison of the new baffle and the old baffle and there is not too much of a difference. Your best bet is to get the crank drilled, either perpendicular or cross drilled and then keep regular maintenance on the rod bearings and oil changes.

Oddjob

I would not be worried about autocrossing.

The bigger concerns come from long, high speed right hand sweepers where the oil is flowing away from the pickup. If youre going through a high speed sweeping carousel at high rpm, this would probably be about the worst situation.

The cars that I know of that have had bearing failure, it was caused by either low oil level, or high mileage fair wear and tear.

I run at least a quarter up to half a quart over the full mark, even on cars with the updated oil pan baffle.

AznDrgn

The car in question has 110K on the original bearings which is pretty high if you are really going to get on it. I doubt that this is the orignal owner and you have no way of knowing how the original owner took care of the car so the beraings might already be crappy. I agree that the high speed turns and extended high revs on the track are more likely to spin a rod bearing than some autoX'ing but it's $100 in parts and a days worth of work. Why would you bother risking so much damage when a preventative measure is so cheap?

Z-man

That is an understatement!

I had my rod bearings redone recently. As stated above, some last, others don't. Swapping them out was one of the cheaper things I've done to my car, and it gave me peace of mind.

I'm assuming that you're planning on running a 951 on the track. The 951 has a greater tendancy to spin the #2 rod bearing than the 944 n/a or the 16-valve powerplants. Not sure what year they put in the extra baffling, but that is supposed to help with the oil slop in the pan.

There is one turn at one track in the Northeast where high-g pull can be an issue - that's the Bowl at Pocono taken clockwise. Very high speed turn, and the oil gets pushed to the lower left side of the pan - opposite of where the oil pickup/sender thingy is. (Yeah, that's a techincal term). I've heard of three #2 spins due to that turn. (twice on one car!)

Don't know of the tracks you plan on running, but ultimately, if you feel uncomfortable with the mechanics of your car, that will inhibit your driving.

Replace your rod bearings for peace of mind. Good insurance, IMHO. A rule of thumb I've heard is to replace them every 3-4 years on a track driven 951.

Just my $0.42,
-Z-man.

Oddjob

Im assuming by Derek's title block that he has a 951. To replace rod bearings on a turbo, you have to remove the intake manifold to take off the crossover pipe, in order to drop the oil pan. You also have to drop the front cross member, which then requires an alignment. If you dont do the work yourself, I would estimate a $1500 labor charge or more at any p-car shop. And thats not including any additional machining like crossdrilling. If you have not done that level of work on a car before, you might think that the $1500 is a bargain price by the time you complete the job yourself. And by the time you get the bearings, rod nuts, oil pan gasket, exhaust gaskets, intake gaskets, etc it will be a lot more than $100 in parts.

AznDrgn, Im not disagreeing with you and your points are very valid. But everything is a trade off of time and money. Sure its a risk to not replace rod bearings annually, not a run an accusump, not to add additional baffling, not to crossdrill the crank. But I also risk the timing belt failing, breaking a balljoint, crashing the car, etc every time I drive the car down the street let alone driving on the track.

And Im not really making a recommendation for Derek. If the car was 150k miles plus, I would be more timid about tracking it. But at 110k, if the car was well maintained and street driven, it should have some life left in the rod bearings. You can usually tell just by looking at the exterior condition of the car, if the previous owners took care of it. And Derek mentioned that the previous owner was very good with oil changes. In the end, Derek will have to assess the condition of his car, determine how and where he wants to drive his car, and weigh the risks.

As far as monitoring the engine through the summer, I agree that if you hear rod knock, its too late. Best way to watch for bearing wear is the oil pressure, but the pressure is not an absolute clear indicator either.

DDP

Wow, lots of good info. Let me explain my situation a bit. I am in the middle of a clutch job and planned on also doing the rod bearings and baffle. The PO took very good care of my car. I am the second owner. Now this past summer, the car ran a month a some oil that had a little fuel in it, not much, but a little is never good. Right now as my car sits, my intake mani is off, my crossover is off and my turbo is off. I need to finish my car soon and I have never done the bearings before. And I don't have a lift. This will take longer than a day for me. I am also out of money, lol. I have the bearings and the pan gasket. I do not have the rod nuts or the baffle yet. And if my pan goes down, I'm doing to the baffle. So would it be safe to wait until next winter to finish what I've started? Or should I finish it now and spend some more? Thanks

Oddjob

If youre that close to it, I would really scrounge to find the money and the time to complete the entire job now. Im sure you would regret having to tear it all apart again next winter. But if you cant make it happen right now, then I guess its not an option, and it will have to wait until next year.

Good Luck either way.

M758

Well I really would do it now. If you are right there at the pan it is so close then do it. Piece of mind is worth alot.

I would consider the bearings Job 1 first then oil pan baffle... However since the pan needs to come off to replace the rod bearings then get the pan done too.

You could get alway just fine without changing the rod bearings, but if it they fail then you will be kicking yourself.

Some times I wish someone could come-up with a real solution to this probelm. I have had two rod bearing failures. 1 may have been cause by a broken oil pick-up tube and blew up the motor. The second was after at apperntly did everything right. Fresh main and rods, oil ban baffle, oil cooler, quality oil, maintained oil level, and 6200 Max RPM's. Well it went anyway after 4 race days. This time it did not blow-up, but did damage the crank beyond cost effective repair. My block and pistons are still good however.

So if someone would just fine a "real" solution rather than a series of band-aids I would be very happy!